Time for a change?

[blitz14]

Has anybody figured out that the section v point standings are a waste. It would be great if it was a fair way to judge a teams quality for section playoffs. Take a look at it. How is Geneva a 6 seed. Does anyone believe that they are only the sixth best team in section v class B. I am no Geneva fan but lets be fair. The truth is ER/Gananda, Hornell and Geneva are the talent of Class B. I would have included Bath but after the butt kicking they received by Hornell over the weekend I would have to say that they are either over rated or had a horrible game.....guess we will see this weekend if they bounce back against Cal Mum. Speaking of Bath....What are they going to do? Everytime they face a quality team they get beat badly. They could not defend the pass against ER/Gananda last year(a team that Bath bashed and did not believe could beat them) and they can not defend against the run which they proved against Hornell. Maybe they can face Geneva in the playoffs, shoot off their mouths about how over rated the other team is and then LOSE AGAIN.....so it makes me wonder what team is really over rated?

[football#1]

I don't know how long the current sectional point system has been in effect but I think it is long overdue for a change.The whole point of sectionals is to have the best teams playing and that is not being accomplished.When a team as bad as Brighton can make sectionals just because they had the dumb luck of being in a class that has only 8 teams,but Arcadia,who went 3-3 doesn't make sectionals,its time for section v to review their rules.These two teams even play in the same division.Class B and C have 15 and 16 teams respectively while the other classes have between 8 and 11.This system is not giving every team the same opportunity to make sectionals in my opinion.This crappy point system also does not give teams any incentive to play higher class teams.You don't think Attica will be begging to get out of the GR and into a league with teams their own size anytime soon do you?1 point extra for playing a team 2 or 3 classes higher, or getting 1 less for playing a team 2 classes lower,so what!Who wouldn't take the sure 4 points.Teams like Finney can practically pick their schedules because their independent and I'm sure that they wont play anyone that they don't have a good chance at beating.I'm not sure what the answer is to solve it but I'm sure this isn't it.Maybe some type of play in for those classes like B or D or sending a percentage of each class instead of a set amount.I dont know but I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only person that thinks it sucks.

[lbcoach45]

The current system is flawed, but won't change anytime soon. I would love to see leagues set up based on class, not area. Each class could be divided and have a four team playoff for each class. Section 4? does something like this. That way, teams play one another and the best teams play in the end. I like the idea of each class being split into two leagues and the top two teams from each league make sectionals, AA would be four due to numbers, the league champ would be the only teams to move on.

This would give another week of regular season games. Teams could still play their rivalry games and it would give teams incentive to schedule good competition for their non league games. Only league games would count towards league standing. I know this would leave out some good teams each year, especially in the larger classes. However, every team has an equal shot to represent their league in sectionals.

Football1, using Arcadia as your reasoning was a bad choice. They were blown out by the four and five seed in their class. If they had won either of those games, they would be in. They didn't earn the shot at being in sectionals. I think over half of every class, except D, making sectionals is a joke. Having .500 and sub .500 teams in sectionals doesn't seem right to me. Sectionals should be a reward for the really good teams, not the mediocre ones.

[UNCTarheels]

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Bath can't defend the run? They allowed 170 yards rushing to the All time Section V leader in Rushing yards, were he normally has 200 in the first half. Bath had 5 turnovers and that's the reason they lost, if you're writing them off after one game I think you're crazy. They've held every other teams top rusher in check and that's not going to change. They've had one bad game i wouldn't be surprised at all if they're playing for the Section V class B title about 3 weeks from now.

[lbcoach45]

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Bath can't defend the run? They allowed 170 yards rushing to the All time Section V leader in Rushing yards, were he normally has 200 in the first half. Bath had 5 turnovers and that's the reason they lost, if you're writing them off after one game I think you're crazy. They've held every other teams top rusher in check and that's not going to change. They've had one bad game i wouldn't be surprised at all if they're playing for the Section V class B title about 3 weeks from now.

The only problem with this, Hornell is the first real good team they have played. HFL is the only other school that has a .500 record. It's obvious that Hornell and Bath are way ahead of the rest of the LCAAI, like most years. I think a lot of people bash Bath because a lot of people have hyped them up. Not saying they aren't a good team, they might end up the class B champs for all I know. It's just when people are saying they are going to run over Hornell and then lose by a pretty wide margin, you're going to have people put them down. It's not right, just how it is. On another forum, people have been talking Bath up since they lost to Hornell last year. Then they lost to ER and there were more reasons they lost and more talk about how they would beat Hornell this year. I've read very few posts where Bath fans say they just lost to a better team.

This in no way is a knock of Bath. I haven't seen them play, but hear they are a very good team that is a legit threat for a sectional championship. They had a few bad years, but look to be back as a major force in class B. Good luck to them this weekend against a strong Cal Mum team and in their sectional run (unless they play Whitman).

[football#1]

The current system is flawed, but won't change anytime soon. I would love to see leagues set up based on class, not area. Each class could be divided and have a four team playoff for each class. Section 4? does something like this. That way, teams play one another and the best teams play in the end. I like the idea of each class being split into two leagues and the top two teams from each league make sectionals, AA would be four due to numbers, the league champ would be the only teams to move on.

This would give another week of regular season games. Teams could still play their rivalry games and it would give teams incentive to schedule good competition for their non league games. Only league games would count towards league standing. I know this would leave out some good teams each year, especially in the larger classes. However, every team has an equal shot to represent their league in sectionals.
Football1, using Arcadia as your reasoning was a bad choice. They were blown out by the four and five seed in their class. If they had won either of those games, they would be in. They didn't earn the shot at being in sectionals. I think over half of every class, except D, making sectionals is a joke. Having .500 and sub .500 teams in sectionals doesn't seem right to me. Sectionals should be a reward for the really good teams, not the mediocre ones.

I used Arcadia as an example because they play in the same division as Brighton and finished 3rd while Brighton finished last and 3 teams ahead of them are in pool play while their in sectionals .The point is that a system that allows teams to make sectionals without having to win even 1 game while other classes have half the teams not qualifying is in serious need of fixing quickly.Your not talking a 1 or 2 team differential with B and D,your talking 7 and 8.AA only has 3 teams in pool play with C and AAA at 2 and A at none.Hello section V,do you see a problem here?
I like the idea of creating leagues by class.It seems to make the most sense and fair to all teams.Like you said it would prevent soft scheduling and the best teams in each class would be playing each other.It cant be easy for section v to justify having 1 B team playing teams like Elba and Barker every year while another is playing state ranked AA teams like Eastridge and Athena but somehow they find a way.I hope they come up with something different soon.I see they have posted a document on sectionv football website that explains why the point system was created,how fair it is,and how it gives all teams a fair opportunity to make sectionals,wow,best laugh I had all day!

[LtLancer]

maybe Batavia should join the GR League then we won't have to drive out there anymore.

[lbcoach45]

football1, did you read my entire post, where I said so many teams making it is a joke. Each class will most likely have one sub .500 team make sectionals, all of them will have atleast one .500 team make it. I don't like the current system, but it isn't going to change anytime soon. Too many people want their kids to feel good about themselves for "earning" their sectional birth. Too many AD's want their teams to look better after playing in sectionals. I completely agree with you about the system sucking and I hope it changes, just don't see that anytime soon.

[sportsfan]

The current system is flawed, but I don't know what the answer is. Unfortunately, Class A is very, very weak. It is sad when a team like Newark (who lost BIG to CA and Victor), but beat lower class teams, ends up seeded third. It is a joke. If the games go the way they should, Victor and Newark will get trounced in the semis....Victor is way down this year, and Newark just played patsies. So, it may just be the way it goes...Class A has been "down" for 2 or 3 years now....at least there used to be 4 or 5 teams in the hunt....this year AQ is head and shoulders above everyone else! We shall see, I guess.

[lbcoach45]

Connors, you're math is off. If a team went 5-2 playing in your system against all smaller schools, they would finish with 1 point, not 7. Six points is a huge difference, as I'm sure you know. 15 points for wins, -14 for the two losses. This doesn't change the flaw in the system either. A B school beating a good C school is much more impressive than a B school beating a bad A school. Example, Attica beating Pembroke is more impressive than Pal Mac beating Wayne. I think the better indicator of how good a teams schedule is with the current system is second tier points. Atleast with that, the teams you beat are beating someone. An example from this year, Finney has six wins and 39 second tier points. Clyde has four wins and 56 second tier points. It's a safe bet to say Clyde has beaten better teams than Finney. Not that Clyde is better, they have just played a tougher schedule.

This could never be used to determine who gets in, it would take too much of the decision out of the hands of the teams. I still like my idea, although it would require a lot more travel for some teams. It would be easy to break down each league and when teams move up or down, you just add them to a league. No more questions about Batavia being a top team in B, they just play too many big schools. No more questions about a team playing weak schools to make sectionals, or not being as good as their record. No more 2-5 teams making sectionals. The underdog story is great and each year there are a few big upsets (marshall this year so far), but if the teams played in class leagues, they would get the same shot each year as every other team.

[football#1]

Connors, you're math is off. If a team went 5-2 playing in your system against all smaller schools, they would finish with 1 point, not 7. Six points is a huge difference, as I'm sure you know. 15 points for wins, -14 for the two losses. This doesn't change the flaw in the system either. A B school beating a good C school is much more impressive than a B school beating a bad A school. Example, Attica beating Pembroke is more impressive than Pal Mac beating Wayne. I think the better indicator of how good a teams schedule is with the current system is second tier points. Atleast with that, the teams you beat are beating someone. An example from this year, Finney has six wins and 39 second tier points. Clyde has four wins and 56 second tier points. It's a safe bet to say Clyde has beaten better teams than Finney. Not that Clyde is better, they have just played a tougher schedule.

This could never be used to determine who gets in, it would take too much of the decision out of the hands of the teams. I still like my idea, although it would require a lot more travel for some teams. It would be easy to break down each league and when teams move up or down, you just add them to a league. No more questions about Batavia being a top team in B, they just play too many big schools. No more questions about a team playing weak schools to make sectionals, or not being as good as their record. No more 2-5 teams making sectionals. The underdog story is great and each year there are a few big upsets (marshall this year so far), but if the teams played in class leagues, they would get the same shot each year as every other team.

The system is so flawed that one change is not going to solve the problem.I agree that their needs to be a bigger point differential for wins and losses when playing bigger and smaller schools.This doesn't solve some schools playing teams 2 or more classes higher or lower than them on a consistant basis because those that play down are still going to win and go to sectionals every year and those that play up are still going to lose and miss out every year .I think it would help if there was a rule and scheduling change that a team cannot play more than 2 games against another school that is more than 1 class higher or lower.This may be fairly easy to accomplish because it would affect very few teams because most schools schedules are this way anyway but it would put those teams that play up and down in class all season in another league where they belong.There is no reason why B schools for example should be playing D schools or AA and higher schools.I also think they need to get rid of the independent league and be put somewhere else.I heard they make their own schedules,and if thats the case than they need to get rid of it.Then comes the problem of 16 teams in 1 class and 8 in another and making sectionals without a win.This is a tough one and I really got nothing to solve this one.They could split B and D and make a BB and DD but then all the teams are making sectionals and that is what the complaint is to begin with.Maybe some type of play in for B and D for those teams that have at least as many points as the team that made sectionals in the other classes.So say Brighton had -20 and still made sectionals than those teams in B and D that didn't make sectionals that had that amount or higher would play games to get into sectionals.This would mean losing week 7 for B and D though.This may be impossible to do but I got nothing else.It's either let more teams in those classes or split the classes in two and let it remained flawed to let almost everyone in.Either way they have to do something because right now it is way too unfavorable to B and D to the point of being extremely unfair. Does anyone know what other sections do or how to find out?

[football#1]

right now the points system is flawed. no doubt about it. and actually there is a rather simple solution. right now it is + 4 for beating a team of lower class, +5 for beating a team of the same class, and +6 for beating a team of a higher class, and then insert (-) for (+) and "losing to" for "beating" and you have the scenario for losing. It would be much more beneficial if it was 3, 5, and 7 instead of 4,5,6. Say there was a class b team playing in a class d league. Sure, if they go undefeated they receive 21 points, which would seed them in the lower part of the bracket. If they lose to any of those teams, they lose seven points. one loss would knock them down to 14 points. two would put them at seven. This system, if put in place, would force leagues to restructure. The monroe county league sure wouldn't try to hang on to Batavia any longer, with the possibility of losing 7 points with just one loss. The LCAA wouldn't mind letting a team like batavia in. Also, teams like Attica would be forced out of the GRL with the possibilty of losing a substantial amount of points. This would force teams who play relatively easy schedules in easy leagues to play a "real" schedule and produce a more accurate representation of their talent. This would eliminate bad teams from getting into sectionals and getting demolished in the first round, and allow those who are actually good to get in. this would produce a much more accurate representation of the talent in Section V.


You probably were to young to remember but 4 or 5 years ago Batavia did pull out of Monroe league and petitioned Livingston for entry into their league.Livingston coaches voted and Batavia was turned down.They had to play independent that year.From what I heard,the coaches cited"travel" concerns for their vote.Come on,we all know that they thought Batavia might win some games against schools their own size and someone other than Hornell,Leroy, Cal Mum and Geneva might win once a league title once in a while and those teams that were perrenial doormats didn't want another good team to contend with.

[lbcoach45]

Football1, to throw Geneva into your conversation about the LCAA is wrong. They would have had nothing to do with the LCAA deciding not to let Batavia in.

Your idea of splitting B and D would only water down sectionals more. Anyway, saying it's not fair to B and D schools because A only has 8 teams is besides the point. Most of the teams in B and D have as good a shot as one another to get in. Most of B is either an LCAA team or a FL team. Only Attica and Batavia aren't in one of those leagues. D is all FL, LCAA or GR, besides the independents. Why should a team that finishes last in their league get to make sectionals because there are only 8 teams in A? Enough with the idea of every team in every class getting a fair shot. In order for that to happen, might as well just have every team make sectionals and the regular season would be for seeding only.

My idea would be so easy to implement. The AA schools are all Mon, or CC with Canandaigua mixed in. CA moves to one of the Mon leagues.
A could have FL and Monroe. Aquinas and Wilson move into Monroe county, HFL into FL.

B could have Batavia move into LCAA as well as Attica.

BK would have to move into a different league in C, this could be the toughest class to figure out. There are currently six LCAA schools and three GR schools. C could just be split up based on proximity, it wouldn't be hard to do with a map.

D could keep their current leagues and just have the independents join in. DeSales could join the FL again and Finney could join the FL. The GR and LCAA could combine leagues and have two leagues of eight for class D.

This is one of the few ways I can see schedules being fair across the board. Get rid of the points system. Beating Wayne shouldn't be worth more points that beating LeRoy. The idea of changing the current points so wins go 3, 5, 7 would only make this worse. Why should a team be punished more for losing to a good small school than losing to a bad large school?

My idea will never happen, despite the fact it wouldn't be that hard to do. Only a few teams would actually have to change leagues. Non league games would still be present and teams might play out of section games more often since a loss wouldn't hurt their sectional chances. Rivalry games would still live on for every team. Independents wouldn't be able to play soft schedules to get high seedings.