Public/Private again..............

[UNCTarheels]

The issue arises again this time in Buffalo with an interesting move regarding the Current #1 ranked class B team in the State. Here's our friend John Moriello's NYSSWA blog (http://www.newyorksportswriters.org/blog/blog-2008-02-07.shtml)-nysswa

Class dismissed: I don't agree with them for the most part, but I do recognize that there are folks out there who are passionate in their dislike of the private and Catholic schools.

Many of their complaints about the sports programs at these schools are actually misguided or unsupported by facts. They complain, for instance, that the private schools have an advantage because they do not have to abide by district boundaries.

This ignores the fact that many school districts have open-enrollment policies that allow students to attend whichever high school in the community they desire. If you don't think that's an issue, wait until Rochester Charlotte cleans your school's clock in Class B basketball early next month in sectionals and perhaps even states. Ditto in Greece, where the athletes in many sports gravitate to anywhere but Greece Olympia in search of winning.

But I'm not here today to pick on the public schools. Rather, I find myself in the somewhat unusual position of dumping on the private schools based on the news (http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/highschool/story/268886.html)that came out of Buffalo this week. Once again, the CHSAA there has waited until virtually the end of the regular season to place its schools into tournament classifications.

And they've managed to choose poorly anyway.

The classification system should be cut-and-dried — align your divisions however you so desire for the regular season, but schools should be placed into playoff classes based on enrollment. And this should be done over the summer. If administrators at a particular school desire to move up one or more classes in one or more sports, they should be accommodated — again, well before the season begins.

That's why what came out of Buffalo this week is truly annoying. Monsignor Martin Association ADs voted Monday to place Nichols, the No. 1 team in The Buffalo News’ small-schools poll and the NYSSWA's top-ranked Class B team, into Class A alongside traditional large schools Canisius, St. Joe’s and St. Francis.

Assuming that Nichols makes it past that obstacle (and the Big Green won't unless Christian Laettner and the Torgalski brothers get their eligibility restored) and then gets past the downstate CHSAA rep, I give that team zero chance of beating Peekskill or Jamesville-DeWitt in the Federation tourney, and only a slight chance against Newark. On the other hand, Nichols vs. Charlotte or Bishop Kearney at the Federation tourney would have been interesting.
But the MMA's criteria calls for classifying by strength rather than by common sense. So Nichols will get fed to the vultures but Charlotte will be free to terrorize Class B perhaps similar to the fashion in which the Chris Tuck and Press Murphy teams walloped the opposition in 1983-84.

The Nichols decision might turn out to be somewhat of a formality anyway, because the statewide CHSAA requires that the Manhattan Cup winner plays in the state Class A tourney. But that's not fair either, and two wrongs do not make a right.

[DrewVT6]

What he's complaining about isn't a problem if there's consistancy from year to year. Look at what AQ girls have done in AA soccer or CBA-Syracuse in basketball and football. However, if there's no certainty from year to year then it really handicaps the schools.

[wejhoopsman]

one suggestion that I heard was to have any Private School play at the level of thier highest recruit.

For example: if AQ has a player from Fairport on thier team, they should play at the AAA level.

If their biggest Recruit is from Pitsford, they play at the A level

It is always hard to have small schools who play vs private teams who are the same size. It is not always so tough at the higher levels for teams in A or above, but in small schools it is a killer like in class B-D. No one in B will touch BK this season. If they were playing at the level of thier higest recruit then they would have better competition.

[DSport]

one suggestion that I heard was to have any Private School play at the level of thier highest recruit.

For example: if AQ has a player from Fairport on thier team, they should play at the AAA level.

If their biggest Recruit is from Pitsford, they play at the A level

It is always hard to have small schools who play vs private teams who are the same size. It is not always so tough at the higher levels for teams in A or above, but in small schools it is a killer like in class B-D. No one in B will touch BK this season. If they were playing at the level of thier higest recruit then they would have better competition.

You're saying if Batavia Notre Dame has a player from Batavia they should play in class A? I'm noy sure that's the solution. I'm not sure there is a solution.

[wejhoopsman]

You're saying if Batavia Notre Dame has a player from Batavia they should play in class A? I'm noy sure that's the solution. I'm not sure there is a solution.

If you are getting players from large schools, why would you kepp playing vs small schools?

Many of the rosters of private schools are filled with kids from large districts. at times it is like playing vs all star teams for small schools.

in this system
If you dont want to play in A, then dont recruit kids from A schools

I like the idea

[BB8185]

I Think the biggest complaint is the fact that they can leave one school go to another and play the next year. You hear where these kids play one year at school a transfer the next to school b and they dont have to set out> I think if they just follow the same rules if you transfer after ninth grade you should have to set a year no matter where they are from of going to.

[Fluk3z]

Is this implying that BND recruits kids to play sports for them? because thats very very false.

[DrewVT6]

Is this implying that BND recruits kids to play sports for them? because thats very very false.

No. That's not the point.

The point of the blog is that the head of the CHSAA in Buffalo randomly switched Nichols to their large school classification near the end of the year.

[DSport]

Is this implying that BND recruits kids to play sports for them? because thats very very false.

I never imply that any team recruits because I simply don't know. I think there are probably some private schools that recruit and some that don't. I'm not sure it's fair to allow these schools with a wider sample of kids to choose from to play in the class they do but I also don't know of a fair alternative.

[bcherry8]

one suggestion that I heard was to have any Private School play at the level of thier highest recruit.

For example: if AQ has a player from Fairport on thier team, they should play at the AAA level.

If their biggest Recruit is from Pitsford, they play at the A level

It is always hard to have small schools who play vs private teams who are the same size. It is not always so tough at the higher levels for teams in A or above, but in small schools it is a killer like in class B-D. No one in B will touch BK this season. If they were playing at the level of thier higest recruit then they would have better competition.
That is an absurd idea. And i dont agree with changing a school's classification during the season. The coaching staff was preparing for a certain set of Class B opponents for playoffs and now they have to prepare for Class A giants, thats not right

[DrewVT6]

I never imply that any team recruits because I simply don't know. I think there are probably some private schools that recruit and some that don't. I'm not sure it's fair to allow these schools with a wider sample of kids to choose from to play in the class they do but I also don't know of a fair alternative.

The whole point of the blog is that this is already a CHSAA team that does NOT compete in the public school sectional or state championships anyways. They compete in the Federation Tournament which is SUPPOSED to be a where the public/private clash takes place.

[DrewVT6]

I hate to burst your bubble Fluk, but I know for a fact that (recent players for Batavia) recieved, on more than one occasion, attempts to sway them toward ND by adults involved in the ND system. I will not mention any names, but it is a fact that both were recruited by ND before, and even after, they ultimately made the decision to attend Batavia.

We already have twenty of these discussions elsewhere. Let's keep this thread on topic.

[wejhoopsman]

That is an absurd idea. And i dont agree with changing a school's classification during the season. The coaching staff was preparing for a certain set of Class B opponents for playoffs and now they have to prepare for Class A giants, thats not right


I think a team winning the class B finals 5 years in a row is a bit more absurd then this idea. What is your recomendation to fix this obvious flaw in the system?

[Former GR Leaguer]

If you are getting players from large schools, why would you kepp playing vs small schools?

Many of the rosters of private schools are filled with kids from large districts. at times it is like playing vs all star teams for small schools.

in this system
If you dont want to play in A, then dont recruit kids from A schools

I like the idea

Where's your proof that ND recruits? Name me some players. I've asked this question to three other posters this year and haven't gotten a response yet. Go figure.

Maybe if all the public school supporters would re-direct all the energy they spend whining about this topic towards making their program better (summer leagues, youth leagues, etc...), they might win more games.

[Giles]

Where's your proof that ND recruits? Name me some players. I've asked this question to three other posters this year and haven't gotten a response yet. Go figure.

Maybe if all the public school supporters would re-direct all the energy they spend whining about this topic towards making their program better (summer leagues, youth leagues, etc...), they might win more games.


I can't specifically name players from BND that were recruited. But when they are able to take in several students every year that happen to be good at basketball, it raises one's suspicions.

How about the public schools that do devote all their energy to making their program better: establishing open gym opportunities for Middle Schoolers, coaching or finding a coach for travel youth leagues.... and then having those kids transfer to private schools in 9th grade because they've developed into good players. McQuaid doesn't "just so happen" to get Relph, Pettinella and O'Sullivan in one year. If these kids want to go to McQuaid and play together, more power to them but because this can create an unfair advantage, they should have to play their own Private School tournament and let the Public Schools that have consistently built their programs based on having neighborhood kids on their team a chance to win Sectionals.

I feel bad for Wellsville who has an outstanding basketball program but won't win Sectionals because they have to play Bishop Kearney every single year.

[wejhoopsman]

I can't specifically name players from BND that were recruited. But when they are able to take in several students every year that happen to be good at basketball, it raises one's suspicions.

How about the public schools that do devote all their energy to making their program better: establishing open gym opportunities for Middle Schoolers, coaching or finding a coach for travel youth leagues.... and then having those kids transfer to private schools in 9th grade because they've developed into good players. McQuaid doesn't "just so happen" to get Relph, Pettinella and O'Sullivan in one year. If these kids want to go to McQuaid and play together, more power to them but because this can create an unfair advantage, they should have to play their own Private School tournament and let the Public Schools that have consistently built their programs based on having neighborhood kids on their team a chance to win Sectionals.

I feel bad for Wellsville who has an outstanding basketball program but won't win Sectionals because they have to play Bishop Kearney every single year.

Well stated ..."it just so happens we have 15 kids on the team that were not in our modified program... are not religous and can play hoops"!

Any school that has open enrolment, such as a private schools... recruit. THe nights that prospective kids walk through the school and look at the facilities, meet the teachers, and pick up the little tri-fold flyer on the sports and activities offered are the nighs that kids are recrutied to go to that school. That is how they make $ and stay open. It may not be like D1 where coaches call and go to your house and offer you $, but to promote your program to kids who can choose to go to your school is a form of recruiting, expecially when public schools cant do the same.
The issue is that it becomes a cycle. When teams like ND or BK have success many kids see this as an opportunity to further their sports careear. Kids recruit kids, trying to get their friends or other good ball players to come to the school. Many top athletes are drawn to the idea of playing with a higher level team and often times leave thier public schools for this opportunity. Remember every kid playing at a private schools LIVES IN A PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT.

The main issue is not enrolment again it is population of the area. A small school that has 30 home grown boys in its senior class only has those kids to choose from to form a team. A team in Greece or Penfield have a HUGE pool of kids to attract. They may not go out seeking them but like I stated before there are many reasons beyond academics that kids go to the schools. would you like to have 30 kids or have the POSSIBILITY of having 1000 kids to choose from?.

Back to the statement about public programs working harder.. As you know you can only do so much with the athletic ability that your team has. You can have a team that works harder then other schools but if the size of the kids and thier athletic peak is not as much as other kids you are stuck. You see cycles of good programs that some years just dont have the talent for a few years but then they get the class of great athletes coming through. That is what limits dynatys in high school sports. Knowing that you are Loaded each year must be a nice feeling.

[Former GR Leaguer]

I can't specifically name players from BND that were recruited. But when they are able to take in several students every year that happen to be good at basketball, it raises one's suspicions.

How about the public schools that do devote all their energy to making their program better: establishing open gym opportunities for Middle Schoolers, coaching or finding a coach for travel youth leagues.... and then having those kids transfer to private schools in 9th grade because they've developed into good players. McQuaid doesn't "just so happen" to get Relph, Pettinella and O'Sullivan in one year. If these kids want to go to McQuaid and play together, more power to them but because this can create an unfair advantage, they should have to play their own Private School tournament and let the Public Schools that have consistently built their programs based on having neighborhood kids on their team a chance to win Sectionals.

I feel bad for Wellsville who has an outstanding basketball program but won't win Sectionals because they have to play Bishop Kearney every single year.

If you can't name names, then why make accusations? I'm 0-4 with concrete answers to my question so far.

I can't speak for Pettinella and Relph, but O'Sullivan's father was in the same class as one of my uncles at McQuaid. So, have you ever thought that maybe alumni of private schools desire to send their children there as well?

Also, maybe the education they will receive is another factor. But, that's another topic, for another day, and probably for a different forum.

[DrewVT6]

Well stated ..."it just so happens we have 15 kids on the team that were not in our modified program... are not religous and can play hoops"!

Any school that has open enrolment, such as a private schools... recruit. THe nights that prospective kids walk through the school and look at the facilities, meet the teachers, and pick up the little tri-fold flyer on the sports and activities offered are the nighs that kids are recrutied to go to that school. That is how they make $ and stay open. It may not be like D1 where coaches call and go to your house and offer you $, but to promote your program to kids who can choose to go to your school is a form of recruiting, expecially when public schools cant do the same.
The issue is that it becomes a cycle. When teams like ND or BK have success many kids see this as an opportunity to further their sports careear. Kids recruit kids, trying to get their friends or other good ball players to come to the school. Many top athletes are drawn to the idea of playing with a higher level team and often times leave thier public schools for this opportunity. Remember every kid playing at a private schools LIVES IN A PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT.

The main issue is not enrolment again it is population of the area. A small school that has 30 home grown boys in its senior class only has those kids to choose from to form a team. A team in Greece or Penfield have a HUGE pool of kids to attract. They may not go out seeking them but like I stated before there are many reasons beyond academics that kids go to the schools. would you like to have 30 kids or have the POSSIBILITY of having 1000 kids to choose from?.

Back to the statement about public programs working harder.. As you know you can only do so much with the athletic ability that your team has. You can have a team that works harder then other schools but if the size of the kids and thier athletic peak is not as much as other kids you are stuck. You see cycles of good programs that some years just dont have the talent for a few years but then they get the class of great athletes coming through. That is what limits dynatys in high school sports. Knowing that you are Loaded each year must be a nice feeling.

You clearly don't understand how the city schools or Greece schools or the urban-suburban programs work.

Your arguments only work with small rural schools and even then there are holes because of choice zones people can live in and all sorts of other loops holes people will go to all kinds of crazy lengths to find.

More often than not, success breeds success. If your school offers a good education and solid sports programs kids will find their way to your school.

If you want to limit your competition to only those schools who have the exact same scenario as your team faces then you'll probably get stuck playing 20 intrasquad scrimmages.

[Former GR Leaguer]

I can't specifically name players from BND that were recruited. But when they are able to take in several students every year that happen to be good at basketball, it raises one's suspicions.

How about the public schools that do devote all their energy to making their program better: establishing open gym opportunities for Middle Schoolers, coaching or finding a coach for travel youth leagues.... and then having those kids transfer to private schools in 9th grade because they've developed into good players.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I had a thought after signing off earlier. Let's look at the starters for the last three Notre Dame teams to win at least a sectional title.

2001 (7 YEARS AGO, FOR PETE'S SAKE!)

Pat McGee - His mother went to ND. Pat was enrolled in St. Joseph's elementary school in Batavia when his family moved to Batavia from NJ (I think it was NJ). His brother Mike was the 6th man, and he attended St. Joseph's as well.
Jeff Pero - Both parents went to ND, and Jeff attended St. Joseph's K-8.
Jeff Weaver - His mother went to ND, and Jeff attended St. Joseph's K-8.
Mikey Rapone - His dad went to ND and is the head coach, I believe his mother went there too (not positive). Mikey went to St. Joseph's K-8.
Dan Whelehan - Attended St. Mary's for elementary school, his older siblings all attended parochial schools, as did/do his younger siblings, and his dad was the President at McQuaid for a while.

1999

Pat McGee - See above.
Jeff Pero - See above.
Jeff Weaver - See above.
Patrick Coughlin - Attended St. Joseph's K-8.
Gerard Haitz - Attended St. Joseph's, K-8.

1997

Vinny Fanara - Both parents went to ND, Vinny attended St. Mary's K-8.
Otis Thomas - His dad went to ND, Otis attended St. Anthony's K-8.
Mike Sisson - Both parents went to ND, Mike attended St. Joseph's K-8.
Paul Rogers - His mother went to ND, Paul attended St. Joseph's K-8, his brother Kevin was 6th man and attended St. Joseph's K-8.
Mike Redick - Attended St. Mary's 7-8, his mother and her six siblings all attended parochial schools K-12.
Dan Coughlin - Other 6th man, attended St. Joseph's K-8.

So, for their last three sectional titles, ND has not featured many players who logged significant minutes and switched from a public school to private school after 8th grade as the post referenced above suggests(and yes, I know, the above post was not directed specifically at ND). And, most of these players who logged significant minutes had at least one parent attend a parochial high school, and a majority of those parents attended ND. So, one could surmise that maybe these parents wanted their children to have the same experience that they had in high school.

[bcherry8]

I think a team winning the class B finals 5 years in a row is a bit more absurd then this idea. What is your recomendation to fix this obvious flaw in the system?
I dont care if they get moved up a class, but not in the middle of the season.

[bcherry8]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I had a thought after signing off earlier. Let's look at the starters for the last three Notre Dame teams to win at least a sectional title.

2001 (7 YEARS AGO, FOR PETE'S SAKE!)

Pat McGee - His mother went to ND. Pat was enrolled in St. Joseph's elementary school in Batavia when his family moved to Batavia from NJ (I think it was NJ). His brother Mike was the 6th man, and he attended St. Joseph's as well.
Jeff Pero - Both parents went to ND, and Jeff attended St. Joseph's K-8.
Jeff Weaver - His mother went to ND, and Jeff attended St. Joseph's K-8.
Mikey Rapone - His dad went to ND and is the head coach, I believe his mother went there too (not positive). Mikey went to St. Joseph's K-8.
Dan Whelehan - Attended St. Mary's for elementary school, his older siblings all attended parochial schools, as did/do his younger siblings, and his dad was the President at McQuaid for a while.

1999

Pat McGee - See above.
Jeff Pero - See above.
Jeff Weaver - See above.
Patrick Coughlin - Attended St. Joseph's K-8.
Gerard Haitz - Attended St. Joseph's, K-8.

1997

Vinny Fanara - Both parents went to ND, Vinny attended St. Mary's K-8.
Otis Thomas - His dad went to ND, Otis attended St. Anthony's K-8.
Mike Sisson - Both parents went to ND, Mike attended St. Joseph's K-8.
Paul Rogers - His mother went to ND, Paul attended St. Joseph's K-8, his brother Kevin was 6th man and attended St. Joseph's K-8.
Mike Redick - Attended St. Mary's 7-8, his mother and her six siblings all attended parochial schools K-12.
Dan Coughlin - Other 6th man, attended St. Joseph's K-8.

So, for their last three sectional titles, ND has not featured many players who logged significant minutes and switched from a public school to private school after 8th grade as the post referenced above suggests(and yes, I know, the above post was not directed specifically at ND). And, most of these players who logged significant minutes had at least one parent attend a parochial high school, and a majority of those parents attended ND. So, one could surmise that maybe these parents wanted their children to have the same experience that they had in high school.
Good research

[Section5sportsguy]

Good research

Yeah, Kudos. I assume this info is factual.

[BogeyPro]

Former GR Leaguer, if only half the facts you posted are true (but you're probably 100% correct so kudos for excellent research) you've made your point. My daughter goes to ND basically because I went to a Catholic school (in Section IV) for 12 years and I encouraged her to do the same. She attended a Section IV school K-6 and then went to St. Joseph's for 7 and 8 when she moved to Batavia.

I know this is a basketball forum but I'll make my point using football. During my daughter's 4 years at ND I saw two bad football teams (fresh & soph yr) that might have won 2 games total, and that's with a young Bo at QB, Karl Geise at RB, Jeff Reddick, Russ Francis, and Mike (forgot his name) who was a total stud on the "D" line.

Junior yr they gelled into a team & won Class D sectionals only to lose to a great OA team who went on to States. Senior yr they played good (but not great) and made it into sectionals on the stength of strong "D".

My point: If ND is recruiting, and I'm 99.9% sure they're not, then whoever recruits should be fired for the lousy job done for at least 2 years.

Many of these same kids also play basketball and that team has excelled over the same time period so I'd say that excellent coaching plays a significant part.

Back to football: if you check ND's schedule you'll find that they play a 2 or 3 "D" schools, 2 or 3 "C" schools, and they've played Attica "B" school. They play this schedule by choice & challenge themselves and, I believe, that's why they usually play well in sectionals.

Just my $.02

[bcherry8]

Former GR Leaguer, if only half the facts you posted are true (but you're probably 100% correct so kudos for excellent research) you've made your point. My daughter goes to ND basically because I went to a Catholic school (in Section IV) for 12 years and I encouraged her to do the same. She attended a Section IV school K-6 and then went to St. Joseph's for 7 and 8 when she moved to Batavia.

I know this is a basketball forum but I'll make my point using football. During my daughter's 4 years at ND I saw two bad football teams (fresh & soph yr) that might have won 2 games total, and that's with a young Bo at QB, Karl Geise at RB, Jeff Reddick, Russ Francis, and Mike (forgot his name) who was a total stud on the "D" line.

Junior yr they gelled into a team & won Class D sectionals only to lose to a great OA team who went on to States. Senior yr they played good (but not great) and made it into sectionals on the stength of strong "D".

My point: If ND is recruiting, and I'm 99.9% sure they're not, then whoever recruits should be fired for the lousy job done for at least 2 years.

Many of these same kids also play basketball and that team has excelled over the same time period so I'd say that excellent coaching plays a significant part.

Back to football: if you check ND's schedule you'll find that they play a 2 or 3 "D" schools, 2 or 3 "C" schools, and they've played Attica "B" school. They play this schedule by choice & challenge themselves and, I believe, that's why they usually play well in sectionals.

Just my $.02
That ND team in '06 was good, they took OA to 4 OT's the first time those two teams played each other

[Former GR Leaguer]

That ND team in '06 was good, they took OA to 4 OT's the first time those two teams played each other

I would've loved to have seen ND be at full strength against Oakfield for the state qualifier game. I'm not saying they definitely would have won, but I think the score might have been a little closer.

[bcherry8]

I would've loved to have seen ND be at full strength against Oakfield for the state qualifier game. I'm not saying they definitely would have won, but I think the score might have been a little closer.
Who did they have injured? Giese? That would have been a crippler

[ndfan79]

they also had 4 or 5 kids not playing because they got caught at a party.

[bcherry8]

they also had 4 or 5 kids not playing because they got caught at a party.
Ah. Talk about bad timing

[BogeyPro]

The 4 OT game against OA was great & certainly unexpected (in my eyes anyway) based on the way they'd played the previous 2 years.

Karl's absence was a major blow in the state qualifier but the other kids that were caught at a party were just plain stupid & left the team shorthanded at a critical time. Totally selfish & stupid.

ND's "D" played great against OA in the qualifier but the double wing offense will just wear you down. OA may have been "3 yds & a cloud of dust" offense but they're fun to watch 'cause the possibility of taking it the distance was always there.

Couldn't believe the fake punt OA called in the qualifier when they were backed-up inside their own 10 & pulled it off ... now that's confidence.

[bcherry8]

The 4 OT game against OA was great & certainly unexpected (in my eyes anyway) based on the way they'd played the previous 2 years.

Karl's absence was a major blow in the state qualifier but the other kids that were caught at a party were just plain stupid & left the team shorthanded at a critical time. Totally selfish & stupid.

ND's "D" played great against OA in the qualifier but the double wing offense will just wear you down. OA may have been "3 yds & a cloud of dust" offense but they're fun to watch 'cause the possibility of taking it the distance was always there.

Couldn't believe the fake punt OA called in the qualifier when they were backed-up inside their own 10 & pulled it off ... now that's confidence.
Coach Dowd is an utter genius. Enough said

[boobiemiles]

Coach Dowd is an utter genius. Enough said
i saw that play coming a mile away. whenever the punt was coming, dowd would just make the kicking motion toward the kicker/qb, and that was that. this time, it was a fake punt situation, and, instead of making the kicking motion, he called kirkum over and called a play. (in the stands, i say to outloud "fake punt") direck snap to kirkum, pass to the left sideline, jumpball, riner comes down with the ball for a first down

[bcherry8]

i saw that play coming a mile away. whenever the punt was coming, dowd would just make the kicking motion toward the kicker/qb, and that was that. this time, it was a fake punt situation, and, instead of making the kicking motion, he called kirkum over and called a play. (in the stands, i say to outloud "fake punt") direck snap to kirkum, pass to the left sideline, jumpball, riner comes down with the ball for a first down
Did someone else besides Kirkum play up-back on punts? That would have given it away too

[boobiemiles]

no. tucker punted. and jay was the special teamer about 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage. the same spot larry izzo for the patriots plays now.

[bcherry8]

no. tucker punted. and jay was the special teamer about 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage. the same spot larry izzo for the patriots plays now.
I meant the Izzo spot, not the punter, i know Tucker always punted, lol. On a side note, in Super Bowl XXXVIII, a streaker ran across the field, only to be laid out by Izzo

[BogeyPro]

Still, aside from the required flawless execution, gadget plays succeed due to the element of surprise & I can't think of a more surprising situation than going for it on 4th down inside your own red zone.

The upback had to execute an excellent throw & the receiver/gunner has to sell the ND coverage and not look back until it's time to make the catch, then he has stay inbounds. No matter how good those OA guys were, OA was a running team & calling a pass (low percentage pass as that) was gutsey.

Hats off to a team that was willing to do what was necessary to win.