Overall Best Team

[Red_White_Catcher15]

Who is your opinion to the overall best team in section V..out of any class, and why?

[UNCTarheels]

That's difficult because of the class Sizes, there's an arguement for everybody.

A loaded class B team like Bath might not do well against a AA power like Greece-Athenas, but there's such a difference in the number of kids that Athena gets to choose from. It's a tough question

[monctybbfan]

a tough question. Overall best team means just that. Nobody asked how big your class is. The fact remains that the lower classes are not that good. They dont compare with the good big schools. My answer is Athena based on there drubbing of hilton last time they played.

[BathRamsFan]

I haven't seen any of the city teams, But Bath with Rossi on the mound, and the that great hitting lineup is tough to beat. 1 game...I think they can beat anybody in sec v.

[pt123]

As a person who watches many games class size is vastly overrated. The best teams in the B class could compete and beat the best in the A's. The differece is really in overall depth. The Rossi's, Beaumont's and going back in the past to the Pullyblank's and Marco Rivera's could keep any smaller class team in the game vs. an A squad. Look at Honeoye this year, with either Marcus Way of Sean Mcguire on the mound they can shut down any A lineup. The size of the school means nothing when compared to the quality of the kid taking the bump. Again, this is in a one game scenario.

[Red_White_Catcher15]

I agree,
I think that any team could beat anyone in one game, but i think that it would be harder for a school like a C or D to win a series against an A or B in the long run.

[pt123]

class C and D baseball is generally a different game. Usually only 2 or 3 legitimate players on each team, after that the other participants are just bodies. Look at Pavilion, a team with a few guys who don't hurt the team and one superstar. I would venture to say that they probably wouldn't win 5 games this year without Hackett. In class A and B, it is really more of a team game where the guys at the bottom of the lineup can still hit a little bit.

[eb14560]

I agree, it is depth. Laws of numbers apply, this leads to more specialization, not just at pitching. Players in general are able to play their best postions everyday. O-A's best pitcher is also their best catcher, Honeoye had that situation a few years ago. Naples has a good SS, but he has to pitch also.
If teams pitched around Hackett he'd have squat for numbers and they probably would not win much at all. Often smaller schools have to play the best athlete in a position as opposed to his best position. This is also why so many small school players have the records as they play Varsity as freshman. The big schools have freshman teams. Many of the teams being talked about right now have an "Ace" who could shutdown the right match up. A few well timed hits/walks/errors and anyone is beatable.
When you watch the teams like Victor and bigger play the coaches have more options and the teams have more ways to beat you up and down the line up. A real big school can have their #2, or #3 pitchers on the side getting ready, not playing in the field. In any one game anything can happen, but if you played a series day after day, it would not even be close.

[Mustangs24]

A vs D is a big difference for sure...when you get to choose your team over having to keep everyone like C/D schools have to do a lot it's a huge difference usually, but not always. An A school might cut 10-30 kids and be able to keep only those who played all year long and have good attitudes while in smaller schools you get kids who just want to put on the uniform and say they were part of the team.

However, I'm not so positive on the pitch around theory as a school like Pavilion has won games with Hackett being pitched around, look at all the games in the paper he's been listed at as 2-2 with 3 BB's because they won't throw him a strike. Of the few games I've seen this year he's been walked most the time. The kids who aren't supposed to come through are the ones coming through for them (hence the whole Cinderella story). That's why you play the game, plain and simple cuz you never know.

You then look at an Attica team who should dominate in GR as they are a B and the teams they face are C/D but every year they kind of fizzle out in sectionals in every sport because of that, not facing bigger competition even after being very good in GR. Any day any time a diff. team can win, but having a large group to select from sure does help.

[ERbaseballa3]

I agree,
I think that any team could beat anyone in one game, but i think that it would be harder for a school like a C or D to win a series against an A or B in the long run.

I'm from ER we in CCC we beat Pal-Mac whose in A. We played Greece Odyessy and stuck with them and they a good team. not all C's and D's team have just a few players at ER we rely on everyone to come and play. So i dont think class size matters that much its all about who comes and plays.

[T'emUP]

i think every team relies on everyone to come and play not just ER.

[ERVB#11]

i think every team relies on everyone to come and play not just ER.
your missing the point its not about ppl not coming and trying there best but hes saying class size does not make everything just because ur a big school does not mean u are good and just because you are a small school does not mean u cant compete

[T'emUP]

ok well regardless every team is going to come out and play their best. thats a given. with the level we're at nobody sits back and doesnt come out to play.
i think smaller schools would have a problem in the long run competing against larger school. they can compete with them but when it comes down to it there is a lot more of a selection for a larger school to make. they have the advantage.
if you took the class A sectional champion and they played against the class C champion the A would most likely beat them in a series let alone one game series because they have more depth throughout the lineup as well as depth through pitching. where as the smaller school may have only one good pitcher. this might always be the case but in most cases it is.

[gitrdone14809]

class C and D baseball is generally a different game. Usually only 2 or 3 legitimate players on each team, after that the other participants are just bodies. Look at Pavilion, a team with a few guys who don't hurt the team and one superstar. I would venture to say that they probably wouldn't win 5 games this year without Hackett. In class A and B, it is really more of a team game where the guys at the bottom of the lineup can still hit a little bit.

i dont agree with you saying that there is only 2 or 3 ligitimate players on a team for class d
if you look at avocas line up, hitters 1-6 and 8 and 9 can hit the ball around pretty good,
and the pitchers Joe Wallace, Brian Kidder, Fred klock, Matt Armstrong, and Sebastian L. have all contributed to our 15 wins this year

[Giles]

i dont agree with you saying that there is only 2 or 3 ligitimate players on a team for class d
if you look at avocas line up, hitters 1-6 and 8 and 9 can hit the ball around pretty good,
and the pitchers Joe Wallace, Brian Kidder, Fred klock, Matt Armstrong, and Sebastian L. have all contributed to our 15 wins this year

Wow, pretty powerful slap in the face to batter #7.

[Red_White_Catcher15]

yea that one was kinda a low blow..
is he really that bad?

[gitrdone14809]

yea that one was kinda a low blow..
is he really that bad?

no he can hit just there others hit better thats all

[Red_White_Catcher15]

Oh so give him some credit..
so lets say the whole lineup can hit??

[noitall]

Guys...the question was the overall best team. Forget it, unless you've seen Hilton play, you shouldn't answer. We've played them 3 times and we were one of the lucky teams to catch them in their funk of losing 3 straight games. They crushed us the other 2 times. Hands down the best team in section V. 3 excellent pitchers, excellent catcher who calls all the pitches, solid hitting, great coach. This is the best team in a long time and that includes the Athena team from last year.

[Rams15]

I am not saying we are the best team, but I didn't know exactly where to place this post. ( haha ) Today we play Gowanda at 4:30. This either could end our season or we could advance to the NYS Class B final four. Either way, I wanted to give our kids some props for some pretty impressive numbers this season.

1. We have scored 299 runs in 28 games. ( School record: 10.7 runs/game )
2. We have 20 HR's this season. 8 different players have hit one and not one has been of the inside-the-park variety. We have hit 3 HR's in three different games this season.
3. Team won the Livingston County Division I title for the 1st time ever beating HFL 3-2 in 11 innings.
4. We have now been to the BB finals three years in a row, winning two titles
5. 7 of our 9 starters are underclassmen.
6. Only shut out once this season in a 13-0 loss to Elmira Southside
7. Team hitting .370
8. 86 extra base hits ( 54 ) 2B ( 12 ) 3B ( 20 ) HR
9. 24-4 record
10. Turned 27 double plays this season
Top 5 BA:
Brett Havens .560 51 hits 33 RBI (10) 2B (6) HR (15) SB (45) runs scored
Montana Yastremski .465 46 hits (11) 2B (5) HR 42 RBI
Mike Rossi .459 (8) 2B (4) HR 38 RBI 37 runs scored 4 K's in 98 AB
Matt Whedbee .449 (9) 2B 18 RBI 25 BB helped turn 27 DP this season
Chris Leonard .327 15 RBI 18 hits

Pitching Stats:
Mike Rossi 50 1/3 IP 6-0 34 H 9 ER 1.25 ERA .179 OBavg (11) BB (71) K
Montana Yastremski 32 1/3 IP 5-0 26 H 19 ER 4.11 ERA .205 OBavg (21) BB (37) K
Chris Leonard 26 1/3 IP 4-0 23 H 15 ER 3.99 ERA .232 OBavg (20) BB (30) K
Brad York 42 IP 4-3 55 H 35 ER 5.83 ERA .296 OBavg (19) BB (19) K
Karl VanAmberg 21 IP 2-1 18 H 10 ER 3.33 ERA .225 OBavg (13) BB (17) K

[pt123]

i dont agree with you saying that there is only 2 or 3 ligitimate players on a team for class d
if you look at avocas line up, hitters 1-6 and 8 and 9 can hit the ball around pretty good,
and the pitchers Joe Wallace, Brian Kidder, Fred klock, Matt Armstrong, and Sebastian L. have all contributed to our 15 wins this year

How many are going on to play in college? That is the measure of whether a kid is a legitimate player or not. I know there are kids that have respectable numbers on every team, but what I meant by legitimate players are kids that will go on to play at the next level. Say what you want, but the percentage of kids that go on to play collegiate baseball from small schools is much smaller than large schools.

[gitrdone14809]

How many are going on to play in college? That is the measure of whether a kid is a legitimate player or not. I know there are kids that have respectable numbers on every team, but what I meant by legitimate players are kids that will go on to play at the next level. Say what you want, but the percentage of kids that go on to play collegiate baseball from small schools is much smaller than large schools.

probly 4 out of 9 but i cant really tell

[gitrdone14809]

I am not saying we are the best team, but I didn't know exactly where to place this post. ( haha ) Today we play Gowanda at 4:30. This either could end our season or we could advance to the NYS Class B final four. Either way, I wanted to give our kids some props for some pretty impressive numbers this season.

1. We have scored 299 runs in 28 games. ( School record: 10.7 runs/game )
2. We have 20 HR's this season. 8 different players have hit one and not one has been of the inside-the-park variety. We have hit 3 HR's in three different games this season.
3. Team won the Livingston County Division I title for the 1st time ever beating HFL 3-2 in 11 innings.
4. We have now been to the BB finals three years in a row, winning two titles
5. 7 of our 9 starters are underclassmen.
6. Only shut out once this season in a 13-0 loss to Elmira Southside
7. Team hitting .370
8. 86 extra base hits ( 54 ) 2B ( 12 ) 3B ( 20 ) HR
9. 24-4 record
10. Turned 27 double plays this season
Top 5 BA:
Brett Havens .560 51 hits 33 RBI (10) 2B (6) HR (15) SB (45) runs scored
Montana Yastremski .465 46 hits (11) 2B (5) HR 42 RBI
Mike Rossi .459 (8) 2B (4) HR 38 RBI 37 runs scored 4 K's in 98 AB
Matt Whedbee .449 (9) 2B 18 RBI 25 BB helped turn 27 DP this season
Chris Leonard .327 15 RBI 18 hits

Pitching Stats:
Mike Rossi 50 1/3 IP 6-0 34 H 9 ER 1.25 ERA .179 OBavg (11) BB (71) K
Montana Yastremski 32 1/3 IP 5-0 26 H 19 ER 4.11 ERA .205 OBavg (21) BB (37) K
Chris Leonard 26 1/3 IP 4-0 23 H 15 ER 3.99 ERA .232 OBavg (20) BB (30) K
Brad York 42 IP 4-3 55 H 35 ER 5.83 ERA .296 OBavg (19) BB (19) K
Karl VanAmberg 21 IP 2-1 18 H 10 ER 3.33 ERA .225 OBavg (13) BB (17) K

i agree for thier class

[bball4life]

i agree for thier class

I second that.

[noitall]

i agree for thier class
Third that from me. The difference between classes is huge. And numbers are meaningless out of context. pt123 says it best. "How many are going on to play college ball?" That's the true measure. They tend to keep the book in college more accurately.


If you notice, many of the Section V records are held by lower classes. You get that player that is fairly good playing against weaker competition and they'll dominate. Alec Carney holds the Section V strikeout record (Class D), Mike Hackett (Class C) Section V hit record to name a couple. Nothing against these guys because they were decent I'm sure, but put them in Class AA and see if they can do the same thing. I'd say no way. It's not their fault they play for smaller schools (although in Carney's case, moving from Penfield to Webster Christian one has to wonder why).

There is a big difference in class, simple as that. So, the overall best team again: Hilton.

[jmr4616]

Played Sutherland AQ Schroeder McQuaid and Victor and of all those myself and a few of my teamtes thought Bath was the best and could beat any team in section V. Very tough team.

[Red_White_Catcher15]

I have to agree..i think that a rele good B team could beat anyone, any class period..its not the size of the school that matters its the skill of the players on the team.

[jrabaseball]

im sorry but we (HILTON) would beat bath. we have too much depth pitching wise and we have beaten the best pitchers in the area (Houghtalen (McQuaid), Blake McLimans (hamburg), Kenney (fairport), Grissom (athena), Armbruster (Schroeder), Paternico (Olympia).

It actually would be a completely unfair matchup because of our depth. Not discrediting Bath because I have heard MANY great things about them but I think we would win in a three game set.

any thoughts?

[Rams15]

Hilton has an outstanding team and has done a ton of work in the off season to improve their program. They should be commended for their season, abundant talent, and obvious work ethic.

However; regarding your statement: " match up with Bath would be completely unfair due to our depth." Be careful what you wish for !! It can come back to take a big bite right out of your ego.

[TakeNotes134]

and you say im cocky at the soccer forum, just leave it at that guys hilton and bath the top 2 teams in section v, out of 100 schools thats a huge honor

[Red_White_Catcher15]

hmm....sounds like someone should get this series set up....that would be some good games to watch...

Any Thoughts on Bath vs Hilton??

[pt123]

im sorry but we (HILTON) would beat bath. we have too much depth pitching wise and we have beaten the best pitchers in the area (Houghtalen (McQuaid), Blake McLimans (hamburg), Kenney (fairport), Grissom (athena), Armbruster (Schroeder), Paternico (Olympia).

It actually would be a completely unfair matchup because of our depth. Not discrediting Bath because I have heard MANY great things about them but I think we would win in a three game set.

any thoughts?

A three game set would actually be a toss up. You guys beat all those Monroe County guys, but none of them are as good as Rossi. Yastremski for bath would be a capable game 2 starter. Bath has beaten better pitching than Black. I actually think it would come down to defense, and Hilton would have the edge there, by a lot.

[Base31]

This forum is filled with a lot of people from small schools. Bath playing in Monroe county would give them a .500 record. They may have one or two good arms and they can beat up on Livingston County teams but baseball in Monroe County is totally different. You can't even compare the competition that a Hilton or Sutherland team plays versus the teams Bath plays. In a 3 game series Hilton would win the first two, easily. Hilton can throw out three legitimate arms that can beat anyone in Section V on any given day. I'd suggest comparing common opponents (of which there are few). I.E. Didn't Bath split a couple games with HFL? I think they were mostly close, not sure who threw for each team but a team like Sutherland handled HFL's ace easily 9 to 0. I'd have to say most of the AAA/AA's like Hilton, Athena, Shroeder, Penfield, Fairport, Arcadia, C-C, etc are all better than Bath. Most of the A's this year are probably as well, Sutherland, Batavia, Victor, AQ, Brighton etc.

[Rams15]

Baseball is one of the few sports that a " smaller sized school " can compete and be successful against larger enrollment schools. ( that's my opinion ) Let me give you some facts.We played HFL twice and one both games. ( 9-2 and 3-2 ) Beaumont has a live arm and was on the gun as recorded by the MCC coach at 85-87 mph in our 9-2 win. We have faced quality pitching. This weekend we played Lamm Post out of Buffalo, Oneonta, and Horseheads. We beat Oneonta a strong Class A school 5-1, we beat Horseheads a AA school 5-1 and lost to Lamm Post 2-1 in 9 and 4-2 in 8 innings. They draw from Williamsville East & South, Clarence, and two other major high schools in Buffalo. We have kids from the small town of Bath and 2 from Canisteo and one from Hammondsport. This all in the same weekend. All with four different pitchers. Why do you have to act so condescending in your tone. That's nothing new however. The Democrat & Chronicle seldom recognizes small school athletes either; particularly when it comes to their AGR teams. Doesn't sell newspapers. Has nothing to do with talent. We ( Bath ) have had sectional champions this season in Cross Country, Soccer, & Baseball, a state champ in wrestling, and a state and federation champion in track and field. There will never be an answer to who thinks what teams or athletes are more proficient. I will tell you one thing, however, our kids are great and can compete with any from around the state in most sports.

[Base31]

No one is being arrogant here. Maybe you need to take your Bath Blinders off. No one has said your team isn't good. But atleast try to be objective. Compare your schedule to any of the teams I listed, the competition is entirely different. Could you guys beat some big schools? Absolutely. But playing a 24 game Monroe County schedule is a lot different than playing in Livingston, Finger Lakes, etc. You can't compare the competition. To try to say Bath is the best team in Section V is comical. Not to mention I believe the only Section V team that did not make it past the Farwest Regional this year. Bath is a great B school, but in an A or AA league they're just another team at best.

[noitall]

I have to agree..i think that a rele good B team could beat anyone, any class period..its not the size of the school that matters its the skill of the players on the team.
I would agree too, any team could be another team if it had the skilled players. However, it truly is unfair to compare a Class B team to a Class AA team. There are very few instances where a B team would beat a AA team.

As an example, Bath played two mediocre Class A schools during the season and lost 13-0 to Elmira Southside and 3-1 to Corning East. So to expect they would ever challenge a AA school with the talent Hilton, Athena, or even Churchville had is ridiculous. Hey Bath had a great year, good job, they should be proud, but the best overall team in Section V, probably not even close.

[pt123]

I would agree too, any team could be another team if it had the skilled players. However, it truly is unfair to compare a Class B team to a Class AA team. There are very few instances where a B team would beat a AA team.

As an example, Bath played two mediocre Class A schools during the season and lost 13-0 to Elmira Southside and 3-1 to Corning East. So to expect they would ever challenge a AA school with the talent Hilton, Athena, or even Churchville had is ridiculous. Hey Bath had a great year, good job, they should be proud, but the best overall team in Section V, probably not even close.

I've actually seen them all play and bath would be fine in Monroe County as long as they were playing Defense. Mike Rossi would be one of the top 3 arms in Monroe County and Yastremski would be as good or better than anyone's #2. As a person who saw a ton of games this spring, I wouldn't go about talking about Monroe County's depth because there was not one team that had a solid hitter after their #5. The large school argument is fine, but you should actually watch a team play before judging them. Also, Bath's 'A' losses can be tossed out. I'm pretty sure they were throwing the bottom of their rotation in each of those games.

[Rams15]

This Bath inclusion was begun by me to give some of our kids notoriety for a season that was filled with accomplishments. I stated specifically that " I am not saying we are the BEST team. but I didn' know under which thread to list some stats for the kids !!! The posters began to say yeah they " done good, but only for their class." Next came noitall who began the discussion of small school vs. large school. Some supported Bath's season, never once stating that they are the best in section V. jrabaseball then stated " We ( Hilton ) would beat Bath... All were positive and informative posts to this point. Then the conversation deteriorated into what Bath would do in Monroe County, " saying Bath is the best is comical ", competitive schedules, etc. My stance is that our boys had a great season. They can play ball and if you wish to compare them pro or con, do so... But do it in an informative manner with facts to back up your baseless analyzing of information. Do you know these kids ? Have you seen them play ? What are their strengths and weaknesses ? Don't make blanket assumptions without seeing both sides of the coin. I have seen Hilton play twice this year, Greece Athena once ( we played baseball with Chase Grissom for years before he moved to Athena ) and three other Monroe County games. The caliber of baseball in Monroe County is solid most years. Absolutely !! We are equally deserving, that's all.

[noitall]

This Bath inclusion was begun by me to give some of our kids notoriety for a season that was filled with accomplishments. I stated specifically that " I am not saying we are the BEST team. but I didn' know under which thread to list some stats for the kids !!! The posters began to say yeah they " done good, but only for their class." Next came noitall who began the discussion of small school vs. large school. Some supported Bath's season, never once stating that they are the best in section V. jrabaseball then stated " We ( Hilton ) would beat Bath... All were positive and informative posts to this point. Then the conversation deteriorated into what Bath would do in Monroe County, " saying Bath is the best is comical ", competitive schedules, etc. My stance is that our boys had a great season. They can play ball and if you wish to compare them pro or con, do so... But do it in an informative manner with facts to back up your baseless analyzing of information. Do you know these kids ? Have you seen them play ? What are their strengths and weaknesses ? Don't make blanket assumptions without seeing both sides of the coin. I have seen Hilton play twice this year, Greece Athena once ( we played baseball with Chase Grissom for years before he moved to Athena ) and three other Monroe County games. The caliber of baseball in Monroe County is solid most years. Absolutely !! We are equally deserving, that's all.
Agreed!

[SectionVDude]

On the Florida Trip, Cal-Mum beat Deluth Minnesota a AAAA (Different Classifications out of state) school 8-4, wayne 4-2 and lost to syracuse corcoran 16-5 and 8-4 with they're ace and Corcoran is like 1000000 x the size of cal-mum but they still COMPETED. Like, LeRoy beat HFL 18-5 and HFL beat McQuaid like 3-2 so would leroy beat mcquaid?

[jrabaseball]

McQuaid is good but without Houghtalen on the mound (Kazley is good too) they are definitely beatable but idk about classes below C. What class is cal-mum?

McQuaid did lose to Bishop Kearney though, and they were extremely weak this year.

[realist55]

Are you referring to the same Greece Athena team that had ten players make All-County in 2007…including NYS Player of the Year Brian Dupra(Notre Dame) and catcher Pavone(UConn)? We saw a number of games around the county this year and one of those games was Hilton losing to Athena 8-2. After checking the D &C website scores...Hilton lost to 2 of 3 Greece teams this season. Nobody on Hilton was even in the same league as a Dupra or Pavone. Schwind is Hiltons best guy. He’s going to Marist next year. Black was good but not a Dupra type player. The Hilton catcher was definitely no Pavone either. They have a kid Hurlimann…he’ll be the best from Hilton.

In any event… the high school and college coaches have seen both teams play, and the number of votes, scholarships and trophies really are ‘the true measure’ of a player or teams greatness.

Hilton had a good year. Based on earlier statements -any comparison of greatness is pointless.


Guys...the question was the overall best team. Forget it, unless you've seen Hilton play, you shouldn't answer. We've played them 3 times and we were one of the lucky teams to catch them in their funk of losing 3 straight games. They crushed us the other 2 times. Hands down the best team in section V. 3 excellent pitchers, excellent catcher who calls all the pitches, solid hitting, great coach. This is the best team in a long time and that includes the Athena team from last year.

[threesportathlete]

Hilton also has something that athena did not have last year...and that was depth. Of course Dupra was the best to come out of section V in a long long time. But Hilton had 3 quality pitchers that they could put on the mound.

[jrabaseball]

true. id like to see this years hilton team vs. last years athena team. even with Dupra on the mound it would be a good game.

[commonsense]

On the Florida Trip, Cal-Mum beat Deluth Minnesota a AAAA (Different Classifications out of state) school 8-4, wayne 4-2 and lost to syracuse corcoran 16-5 and 8-4 with they're ace and Corcoran is like 1000000 x the size of cal-mum but they still COMPETED. Like, LeRoy beat HFL 18-5 and HFL beat McQuaid like 3-2 so would leroy beat mcquaid?

Wayne beat Cal-Mum 15-2 in 5 innings before they forfeited this game... not 4-2

[Mr.Somebody]

true. id like to see this years hilton team vs. last years athena team. even with Dupra on the mound it would be a good game.

I disagree whole heartedly..if you put chase grissom on the mound, then yes, it becomes a good game..but to say that bringing back the entire athena squad of last year to play ur team from this year would not be fair..athena would win 9 out of 10 times with dupra on the mound. He is too good to be pitching to a high school team. Maybe the 2-3-4 hitters could touch him but there is no way that Hilton could keep up with the runs that Athena would put up, especially with Durpa on the mound.