How many goals are too many??

[ITSAGAME]

Listed in todays results was a team beating another team by the score of 12-0, and outshooting that team 46-1. If you were a coach, at what point do you pull back (if ever) and tell your team no more scoring. I would not of wanted to be a player or coach of the team that gets humiliated by running up the score like that. Obviously one team is far superior than the other but what is gained by scoring 12 goals?????? There are many things coaches can do to limit running up the score (ie. headers only, must be left footed shot, got to be a pass back to shoot etc.) Whats your thoughts????

[ub316]

I am assuming that you are refering to the Bloomfield game. By looking at the box score there were 33 shots taken 12 of which were scores, it was 8-0 at the half. It appears that the coach did make adjustments at the 1/2 to avoid running up the score as the scorers in the 2nd half were primarily defensive players. Do we know that there weren't any other actions taken to keep the scoring down? No. I am sure of one thing, the Bloomfield team has spent far more time prepring for this season through commitment and hard work than their counterpart yesterday. It is not Bloomfields responsibility to codle the opponent, it is their responsibility to play the game as it was intended and that is exactly what they did.

[DSport]

There are two sides to every score. I wouldn't want to be the team that lost 12-0. In fact, I think I would train harder if that happened so it wouldn't happen again. Lets think of this from the other perspective. Maybe the 12 as a whole is a lot but maybe some of those 12 were backups that don't always get the chance to score or defenders who are finally rewarded for doing a thankless job.

[AlwaysRunning]

12 is a lot of goals but unless you were there you really don't know what went down. Perhaps the other team just stopped trying?

[ITSAGAME]

I am assuming that you are refering to the Bloomfield game. By looking at the box score there were 33 shots taken 12 of which were scores, it was 8-0 at the half. It appears that the coach did make adjustments at the 1/2 to avoid running up the score as the scorers in the 2nd half were primarily defensive players. Do we know that there weren't any other actions taken to keep the scoring down? No. I am sure of one thing, the Bloomfield team has spent far more time prepring for this season through commitment and hard work than their counterpart yesterday. It is not Bloomfields responsibility to codle the opponent, it is their responsibility to play the game as it was intended and that is exactly what they did.
The D&C had the shot total as 46-1 (called in by the coach), that is what I was refering to. No one ever said that Bloomfield had not worked harder or spent more time preparing than their oponnent. I would say that making adjustments at half time with the score 8-0 is a little too late. Put your subs in or defenders up at say 5-0 when you know the game is in the win column. Not to take anything away from the Bloomfield team, its obvious they are a very good team as their record shows.....

[blue25]

I can say from experience it is NOT FUN losing by that many goals...however if you look at Bloomfield's stats, every player except two have goals, and almost all of them have assists. In addition it looks like the backup keeper has played some substantial time, and the team has not been scored on yet. Let's give them credit for just being a great team this year.

Sometimes in the non-Monroe county leagues the competition is so varied. Soccer is a player's game, and highly emotional at that so it can be a coaching challenge to change the way a team or individuals play at the high school level. In addition, if your reserves are playing in a game like that, it is difficult to tell them to hold back when maybe they don't see as much time in more competitive games. Games against a less challenging opponent is their opportunity to shine.

Just my opinion....

[hornets10]

of the 12 goals, how many did the 2nd or 3rd team score

[coachstew]

That game was against Dundee, and I guess I have a little different take on this than most.

First of all it's not a secret that we are not a soccer power in Dundee. I also believe that Bloomfield has not been scored upon this year. If you are the coach from the winning school then you definetly can do things to keep the scored down. I have to disagree with the theory that it is not their job to cottle the opponent. I also hate it when someone says "oh it could have been much worse", yeah it also didn't have to be as bad as it was.

The kids will do what their coach asks of them. If I apply this theory to basketball then I can put my second string in against an overmatched opponent continue to press full court and run some huge numbers. One of the things I pride myself in as a coach is yes we have won a bunch of games in a row, and yet I get compliments from opponents about how classy we are as a group.



Listed in todays results was a team beating another team by the score of 12-0, and outshooting that team 46-1. If you were a coach, at what point do you pull back (if ever) and tell your team no more scoring. I would not of wanted to be a player or coach of the team that gets humiliated by running up the score like that. Obviously one team is far superior than the other but what is gained by scoring 12 goals?????? There are many things coaches can do to limit running up the score (ie. headers only, must be left footed shot, got to be a pass back to shoot etc.) Whats your thoughts????

[blue25]

of the 12 goals, how many did the 2nd or 3rd team score

Good question. They don't post minutes in the stats on section V's website, but somebody who was there might know.

[DrewVT6]

Sometimes in the non-Monroe county leagues the competition is so varied.

There ya have it! And if you want to be competitive come Sectional time you have to give your starters some time to gel and to play competitively.

In soccer, if you have a team that is disciplined defensively and plays with purpose offensively against a team that has no clue what they're trying to do other than kick it up to that 'other goal', things can get ugly quick. Even if the second string and third string aren't as talented or as athletic as the other team they can pile on the goals because of their team foundations.

[UNCTarheels]

Genesee-Valley 15, Cuba Rushford 1

This Past Friday Class DD Gen-Valley pounded class C Cuba-Rushford with 9 goals in the 2nd half, C-R scored their lone goal 6 minutes into the 2nd half. The starters were left in as Brdget Woolston had 3 goals & 4 assists & Kristen Swann had 3 goals & 3 assists & Jillian Stafford had 2 goals & 2 assists.

Genesee-Valley (http://www.sectionvsoccer.net/index.cfm?page=2&sub=6&div=3&team=41)

[ITSAGAME]

There ya have it! And if you want to be competitive come Sectional time you have to give your starters some time to gel and to play competitively.

In soccer, if you have a team that is disciplined defensively and plays with purpose offensively against a team that has no clue what they're trying to do other than kick it up to that 'other goal', things can get ugly quick. Even if the second string and third string aren't as talented or as athletic as the other team they can pile on the goals because of their team foundations.
How does running up the score on a outclassed (maybe wrong wording) team get your starters to "gel" as a team or "play competitively" ???? Surely this does not prepare you for sectional play...

[DrewVT6]

How does running up the score on a outclassed (maybe wrong wording) team get your starters to "gel" as a team or "play competitively" ???? Surely this does not prepare you for sectional play...

You can score 5 or 6 goals in the first 15-20minutes of a game easily with the difference in coaching and talent. You need to have your starters go out and play their best.

In soccer there's a term called, "game fitness". It's virtually impossible to replicate in practice the intensity over a length of time that is involved in winning a soccer game. You can try as hard as you like, but you're not really going to get game fit or learn the pace you have to play at in order to win without game-time. As a coach whose team is aiming for success on a higher level, you have to get your players minutes in a game setting.

Also as a coach, even when your 2nd and 3rd string players are in the game, you don't want them to "play down to the competition". Sure you can set some limitations on how they play (2-touch) or how they score, but you don't even want your non-starters to pickup the bad habits of the competition. You want to be respectful, but in my book not trying is just as disrespectful as showboating.

[ITSAGAME]

You can score 5 or 6 goals in the first 15-20minutes of a game easily with the difference in coaching and talent. You need to have your starters go out and play their best.

In soccer there's a term called, "game fitness". It's virtually impossible to replicate in practice the intensity over a length of time that is involved in winning a soccer game. You can try as hard as you like, but you're not really going to get game fit or learn the pace you have to play at in order to win without game-time. As a coach whose team is aiming for success on a higher level, you have to get your players minutes in a game setting.

Also as a coach, even when your 2nd and 3rd string players are in the game, you don't want them to "play down to the competition". Sure you can set some limitations on how they play (2-touch) or how they score, but you don't even want your non-starters to pickup the bad habits of the competition. You want to be respectful, but in my book not trying is just as disrespectful as showboating.
5 or 6 goals in the first 15 minutes?? I understand game fitness and as a coach I would want my players to be as prepared for a game as possible, but come on do you really think the "intensity" of that game was any different than a practice behind the school on a non game day?? I'm not saying to play down to anybody. I'm just saying show some sportsmanship to less skilled teams...... Some day you may be there......

[DrewVT6]

5 or 6 goals in the first 15 minutes??

You know what I didn't even look at the scoreline until now, but I was correct in my guess.

http://www.sectionvsoccer.net/windows/game_report_popup.cfm?gameid=247

They had 5 goals in 16minutes. And 7 by the 28th minute. That tells me the coach ran out his starters and had them play their best for 30minutes. He allowed the starters back in for the first few minutes of the 2nd half (see: goal in the 4th minute) before pulling them out and the 2nd string scored 4 more.

Like I said, a second string on a well coached soccer team will outscore a poorly coached more athletic and even more talented opponent.

I've been on both sides of those type of score-lines. Honestly, I have less problems with my opponent playing their hardest than I do with them making obvious attempts to not try.

[jmr4616]

When i was on JV in 9th grade so like 5 years ago now we beat wayco 18-0 and it was 14-0 at halftime we had our starters out like within the first bit and forwards playing d our goalie played striker and so on but we couldn't stop scoring and for the last 30 or so minutes we ended up playing keep away and two touch

[boobiemiles]

After playing with Oakfield for 3 years now, and being on the losing end of a lot of games(summer league of course) I really don't think that there is a number for too many goals. Just as long as you don't have guys going all out late in the game just to rub it in. Ask bcherry8 how it feels to get the score run up on you. It's not fun but I find that the score in a lot of the blowouts really isn't as important for an inferior team, and the key point is that you can get some things working.

[UNCTarheels]

York 12, Mt. Morris 0

York (http://www.sectionvsoccer.net/index.cfm?page=2&sub=6&div=3&team=109&season=2008)

[bcherry8]

After playing with Oakfield for 3 years now, and being on the losing end of a lot of games(summer league of course) I really don't think that there is a number for too many goals. Just as long as you don't have guys going all out late in the game just to rub it in. Ask bcherry8 how it feels to get the score run up on you. It's not fun but I find that the score in a lot of the blowouts really isn't as important for an inferior team, and the key point is that you can get some things working.
Yeah, getting blown out sucks, no doubt. But i get more upset when the other coach points to his watch to signal to his players to just kick the ball around after they get up by alot. Just put in the bench players and have them play conservative, yet actually try. I would rather lose 12-0 and have it be competetive between us and their bench, rather than losing 7-0 and chasing them around as they play keep-away for 30 mins. Its more humiliating to play keep-away than it is to keep scoring.

[ref11]

in soccer its the easiest to controll the score, one way play with 10 players then 9, only score by heading the ball, all shots must come from way out.play the keep away game like you do in practice

[AlwaysRunning]

in soccer its the easiest to controll the score, one way play with 10 players then 9, only score by heading the ball, all shots must come from way out.play the keep away game like you do in practice

I don't know - its pretty disheartening to a team to see the other team not really trying or playing keep away. As a player chasing the ball around while the other team keeps it away from you is horribly embarassing.

[DSport]

in soccer its the easiest to controll the score, one way play with 10 players then 9, only score by heading the ball, all shots must come from way out.play the keep away game like you do in practice

Come on now. I would be ticked to no end if the other team took two players out. How humiliating. I think what happens after you score the goal is as important as not trying to run up the score. If you act with class and don't rub it in then it's better than laughing or getting extremely excited after going up 10-0. I know these are just high school kids but there's lessons to be learned by getting stomped too.

[bcherry8]

in soccer its the easiest to controll the score, one way play with 10 players then 9, only score by heading the ball, all shots must come from way out.play the keep away game like you do in practice
Are you kidding me? Thats more humiliating than losing by fifteen

[AlwaysRunning]

Come on now. I would be ticked to no end if the other team took two players out. How humiliating. I think what happens after you score the goal is as important as not trying to run up the score. If you act with class and don't rub it in then it's better than laughing or getting extremely excited after going up 10-0. I know these are just high school kids but there's lessons to be learned by getting stomped too.

Many times I think its people that don't play the game or don't understand the game that don't understand how humiliating it is for a team to pull players off or play keep away. Anyone who has been on a field would rather have a team lay in to them rather than be embarassed by the opposing team play with 9 or 8 players and just keep the ball away from them.

Think pickle in the middle with your older brother and his friend - that wasn't humiliating at all was it?

[boobiemiles]

Exactly. I would much rather have the team playing all out and pouring it on, then to have them play with less players or to just play keep away. It sucks

[jmr4616]

Dynasty
~Greg Robinson and the Syracuse Football team

Wrong place haha

So what your saying is you would rather lose say 25-0 than to have the other team play keep away or take players off dicreetly?

[boobiemiles]

crap haha how'd that get there!


and well, our oakfield team was absolutely terrible, and I think we got up to 18-0 in one game. After a while, you just forget the score and them pouring it on just becomes part of the game. Players don't really come off discretely either... I usually notice right away when they would take players off. And keep away sucks. you're not playing a game any more when they're playing keep away

[jmr4616]

I mean maybe there should be a mercy rule in high school soccer or something then because its no fun being the team just pouring in goals either its kinda boring because a lot of the fun involved in the game is from the challenge and everything. This is the reason that HFL is looking to change to monroe not because of bath hornell or livonia but wayco and dansville whom they beat 8,9,10 nothing regularly. Those games are not fun last year i had a minor injury against wayco and started thegame played about 10 minutes we got up about 2,3-0 and i came out it wasn't fun and an hour bus ride. i absolutely hate blow outs and would actually prefer to lose a close game much more fun.

[jmr4616]

and i'm sure that in the flow of the game say while attacking the other goal you could pull out an outside back or something like that right? I mean unless your looking for it chances are you will not see it.

[tgrs07]

My Jr. High coach used to add extra players discretely if we were losing by a couple of goals. I think the most we ever had on the field was 14. Oddly enough it didn't make a difference, and he doesn't coach soccer anymore.

[bcherry8]

crap haha how'd that get there!


and well, our oakfield team was absolutely terrible, and I think we got up to 18-0 in one game. After a while, you just forget the score and them pouring it on just becomes part of the game. Players don't really come off discretely either... I usually notice right away when they would take players off. And keep away sucks. you're not playing a game any more when they're playing keep away
I remember when Albion did that. They played with 7 and just played keep away. They only won like 5 or 6 to zip, but it was more humiliating to me than losing by 10

[AlwaysRunning]

and i'm sure that in the flow of the game say while attacking the other goal you could pull out an outside back or something like that right? I mean unless your looking for it chances are you will not see it.

Except that its illegal to just have players walk off the field. You have to take them off at a substitution opportunity. Think of it as if a football team played with 7 players against your 11 and just ran around the field with the ball for 10 minutes while you chased them so they could score lateralling the ball left and right. That is what you are asking a soccer team to do.

[jmr4616]

I'm saying that taking off players discreetly would be a replacement to playing keep away because it would make the playing field more even and allow both teams to improve. I'm sure no coach would get in trouble for taking players out in a blow out to help the game.

[ref11]

i have seen some of the top d boys programs play with 10, 9 and even 8 players then other team still played hard. the losing coach really thanks the other coach

[ub316]

i have seen some of the top d boys programs play with 10, 9 and even 8 players then other team still played hard. the losing coach really thanks the other coach

This a varsity sport not intramurals, athletes have dedicated countless hours to become the BEST they can be, not to acheive a comfortable level of mediocraty as to not offend another teams fragile egos. If you don't want to get beat by 12 then work harder, get in the weight room, do extra running on your own time, get involved with indoor programs or a more challenging summer program, do something more! To expect another team to play down to an inferior opponents level or make drastic adjustments to their style of play is insulting to those who have done those extra things. I can't beleive we're even having this conversation. Grow up!

[newarksoccer]

You can't have kids on the field not playing hard. Thats how players get hurt. As a coach you move people aroud but you never want your kids to play soft. There are teams out there that have star players play up top all game. I dont ever blame a team for scoring...Play your whole team on defense if you don't want them to score. Sportsmanship is how you handle it. You can be encoiuraging to both teams, you can move players to unnatural postions, but the bottom line is you have to get your team ready. For some it means resting injured palyers, for others its additional game fitness. Most teams if you take out a couple of key players, you balance the game. Can't blame bloomfield for player weaker opponents.

[Kicker6]

A coach and a player should NEVER let up. But there should be considerations that need to be thought out.

** ALWAYS show respect for your opponent -- as well as teammates, referee(s), coaches, fans, etc.

** As a coach you always try to get your team (athletes) to perform to a certain level and to perform certain functions (ie. forwards take the ball to goal, forwards take a certain amt of shots and SCORE, defenders win a ball, midfielders perform transition, etc.) You don't EVER want them to NOT/STOP doing everything you've been coaching them to do.

** Starters DO need to play at "match speed" that cannot be replicated during a training session. (ie. Think of all the D1 footbal games during the first 2-3 weeks of the college season. OSU vs. Youngstown State, Penn State vs. Coastal Carolina, Oklahoma vs. Chattanooga, etc.)

** Now what does a coach do when the score gets to 5-0 within the first 15 minutes?
1) Take out the starters and put in the reserves. The reserves should play at "match speed" as much as possible as well.

** The score is 10-0 at half with reserves. NOW what?! This is when it starts to get tricky. No coach WANTS to show up an oppnent.
* Discreetly removing ONE player is a start. (No ref would admonish a coach for that -- we're talking about a 10-0 match.)
* Switching up players' positions is another way -- but players tend to act "goofy" when this happens. (ie. Defenders up on the line really WANT to score, & when they do, they act like a typical teenager -- bizarre.)
* "Limit setting" is a possibility, but once again gets tricky. ie. What does a forward do when he has a breakaway but the imposed limit is 3-pass combinations? Bringing the ball back out & not score tends to "show up" the opposition. Can't do that.
ALthough . . . I've had mild success with a limit such as opposite foot shots only.

There is NO RIGHT WAY to approach this subject. Although there are a few don'ts.
Don't show disrespect.
Don't keep the starters in for a long period of time.
Don't lose focus of what athletics and the match is about. Learning.
Don't forget that as a coach, you are modeling your behavior.

It is NOT the fault of the better team that the teams are mis-matched.

[ref11]

kicker6 you sound like a man who gets it

[Kicker6]

Thanks ref -- much appreciated. Maybe I "get it" because I'm closing in on old age (or some call it "a lot of experience) lol.

I've been around a bit. I played at a very high level of soccer in club, h.s., college, and after college as well. I've also coached at all levels (except college -- and that may happen soon.) I still play now, although my knees and ankles tell me shouldn't every day after a game. :p

[hornets10]

still like i said, if the teams 2nd or 3rd team is scoring majority of the goals, i dont think its too bad then.. and im sure everyones been on both ends before

[gundy]

Ref 11 I see your point but I feel as a coach that it is more offensive to me to have the other team pulling players off the field as if look we can still control the game. As long as the other coach doesn't have his starters in when the game is out of control it doesn't bother me,your subs should be allowed to try to score to.

[315-4-life]

In the 315 we know a lot about blowouts. There are many good teams and many bad teams in our leagues. The Finger Lakes big 4 (Pal Mac, Wayne, Newark, and CA) are forced to play weaker central teams. That accounts for 8 games on their schedules. This hurts them a great deal as far as keeping their players game ready. So many teams do score more goals then what is "acceptable". Newark won two different 7-0 contests this week. But looking closely at the numbers, the scored 4 of those in the matter of 6 game minutes of the 2nd half. Pal Mac has had a couple of blowouts as well, but they have about 6 subs on their bench. Of course reserves are going to try and score, it is their chance.

Whats next in all this, should teams Let the other team score a goal to feel better about themselves. If you want to feel better get better. This is not to say leave your star player in vs. the other teams reserves. If your reserves are better than they should and will score.

[RM3]

We have a very strong team and have been in this situation many times. Once it gets to about 5-0 our coach moves kids around that haven't scored and they proceed to pass to that kid to score. He also makes them pass so many times before they shoot and if they don't, he takes them out. Another option he tells them they can score with only certain kicks, sissors kick etc. Sportsmanship is always stressed. We as parents feel bad for the other, team and yet love to see our kids work together.

[315-4-life]

In the 315 we know a lot about blowouts. There are many good teams and many bad teams in our leagues. The Finger Lakes big 4 (Pal Mac, Wayne, Newark, and CA) are forced to play weaker central teams. That accounts for 8 games on their schedules. This hurts them a great deal as far as keeping their players game ready. So many teams do score more goals then what is "acceptable". Newark won two different 7-0 contests this week. But looking closely at the numbers, the scored 4 of those in the matter of 6 game minutes of the 2nd half. Pal Mac has had a couple of blowouts as well, but they have about 6 subs on their bench. Of course reserves are going to try and score, it is their chance.

Whats next in all this, should teams Let the other team score a goal to feel better about themselves. If you want to feel better get better. This is not to say leave your star player in vs. the other teams reserves. If your reserves are better than they should and will score.



Ok Spencerport you proved me wrong. was it really 15 or 17 to zero. What did that prove. that is terrible. I noticed your star player was still getting points late in the second half. SHAME on YOU!!!

[tballer2]

thats spencerport vs. east/freddie thomas was a bit rediculous.
16-0 spencerport beat them and FT didnt have a single shot on net!