What happened?

[pappasue]

What happened to sportsmanship? What happened to clapping when the other team makes a good play? What happened to people enjoying a good game and just having a good time? Everyone likes to win but when did winning become so important that we clap when the other team makes a mistake, not that our team did something good, the other team jumped offsides or has the ball dribble off their foot and go out of bounds? When did we become a people wishing other players get hurt just so our teams can win?
I can remember when i was a kid going to red wings games and clapping when the other team made a good play, how come our kids never do that?
The next time you go to a game clap for the other team when they make a good play and then look at the odd looks you will get from people around you. We are becoming a very little people.
Jim

[TurnTwo]

What incident prompted this post?

[m0rocco]

Yeah, what made you all of a sudden post this?

[RCcitymiller]

welcome to sports?

[Lukelakers]

What happened to sportsmanship? What happened to clapping when the other team makes a good play? What happened to people enjoying a good game and just having a good time? Everyone likes to win but when did winning become so important that we clap when the other team makes a mistake, not that our team did something good, the other team jumped offsides or has the ball dribble off their foot and go out of bounds? When did we become a people wishing other players get hurt just so our teams can win?
I can remember when i was a kid going to red wings games and clapping when the other team made a good play, how come our kids never do that?
The next time you go to a game clap for the other team when they make a good play and then look at the odd looks you will get from people around you. We are becoming a very little people.
Jim

I have been around sports since I was a little boy and never saw one team applaud for the other team after they made a nice play. Why would they? It is competition!! And I have never been around that wished another player from an opposing team got hurt. Have you ever noticed that when a visiting player makes a spectacular play at Yankee Stadium, the Bronx crowd (one of the toughest to please) always gives the player a round of applause because they appreciate the effort. Now, if your asking for the Yankee fans to applaud when the Red Sox turn a double play to get the Yankees out of inning, then your going to be waiting a long time!!

[coachstew]

Not trying to be a jerk here, but part of the fun of sports to me is going into those environments and hearing a crowd come after you. As an athlete and a player I think it's somhing you have to embrace and relish.

[pappasue]

What incident prompted this post?
Posts on this forum promted this, most of the people on this forum have no idea what sports are about. Of course it is about winning but have any of you heard about "Winning with class" I don't think so. I am sure most of you are younger than me but it wasn't that long ago when people would actually clap when the other team made a good play. Does it hurt you to reconize a good play by the other team? Do you "Hate" them that much?

[GRBball2008]

Posts on this forum promted this, most of the people on this forum have no idea what sports are about. Of course it is about winning but have any of you heard about "Winning with class" I don't think so. I am sure most of you are younger than me but it wasn't that long ago when people would actually clap when the other team made a good play. Does it hurt you to reconize a good play by the other team? Do you "Hate" them that much?
i think you may be generalizing far to much

[m0rocco]

Posts on this forum promted this, most of the people on this forum have no idea what sports are about. Of course it is about winning but have any of you heard about "Winning with class" I don't think so. I am sure most of you are younger than me but it wasn't that long ago when people would actually clap when the other team made a good play. Does it hurt you to reconize a good play by the other team? Do you "Hate" them that much?

I have to disagree....with the exception of a select few I think most of us do a good job or recognizing great players on all teams and talking about the games without insulting or "bashing" teams or players.

However it IS sports man, the point is to win.

[boobiemiles]

I think a lot of athletes may say something to the person who made a good play, but they do not want to show their praise for somebody who is trying to beat them. Think of the NFL where after a collision, players will pat each other on the helmet just to say "nice hit". There's a lot of mutual respect for competitors. A lot more than you see.

[m0rocco]

I think a lot of athletes may say something to the person who made a good play, but they do not want to show their praise for somebody who is trying to beat them. Think of the NFL where after a collision, players will pat each other on the helmet just to say "nice hit". There's a lot of mutual respect for competitors. A lot more than you see.

All he is seeing is the very small sample of fans who are obnoxious and are just trying to cause probs and bring attention to themself. That is the not the majority bud, trust us.

[coachstew]

I think a lot of athletes may say something to the person who made a good play, but they do not want to show their praise for somebody who is trying to beat them. Think of the NFL where after a collision, players will pat each other on the helmet just to say "nice hit". There's a lot of mutual respect for competitors. A lot more than you see.

As a coach I know I always congratualate kids on good hustle, and other good plays. I think if you watch the athletes at most games they are usually pretty good sports too. Helping other players up, and other signs of good sportsmanship. I really think it is going a bit far to expect a fan to clap when the opposing team makes a great play or something like that. You may have to settle for them just being good sports in other ways.

[GRBball2008]

As a coach I know I always congratualate kids on good hustle, and other good plays. I think if you watch the athletes at most games they are usually pretty good sports too. Helping other players up, and other signs of good sportsmanship. I really think it is going a bit far to expect a fan to clap when the opposing team makes a great play or something like that. You may have to settle for them just being good sports in other ways.
a lot of the athletes that go to opposing schools actually know each other and are friends. That adds to the sportsmanship displayed among st them.

[hilly]

I don't think sportsmanship is a problem nowadays. There are always going to be kids and parents that cause problems, but for the most part things are pretty mild. I think - especially with the teams I cover - that the kids are always very well behaved on the field and I don't see many problems.
The rant that started this thread come from somebody that has a grudge with somebody for some reason.

[anth31]

maybe he's talking about Dansville fans :p

[hilly]

maybe he's talking about Dansville fans :p


Ha ha. Those Dansville fans did tick off a lot of Oakfield people last week. I thought one O-A player (I won't mention his name, but he's somebody you don't want to make mad) was flipping out when he was boo'd coming out after the half.
I don't think they were that bad. Heck, they even had me laughing when they kept mocking Jon Fisher on the sideline. Of course, Fisher set the Section 5 playoff single game extra point record so I don't think they really got to him.

[anth31]

Ha ha. Those Dansville fans did tick off a lot of Oakfield people last week. I thought one O-A player (I won't mention his name, but he's somebody you don't want to make mad) was flipping out when he was boo'd coming out after the half.
I don't think they were that bad. Heck, they even had me laughing when they kept mocking Jon Fisher on the sideline. Of course, Fisher set the Section 5 playoff single game extra point record so I don't think they really got to him.

yeah I talked to Fisher today and he didn't really take offense to it he was laughing when they said all that stuff. I thought it was funny for the most part because they were getting killed and they still were swearing and yelling at the OA players lol.

[pappasue]

I don't think sportsmanship is a problem nowadays. There are always going to be kids and parents that cause problems, but for the most part things are pretty mild. I think - especially with the teams I cover - that the kids are always very well behaved on the field and I don't see many problems.
The rant that started this thread come from somebody that has a grudge with somebody for some reason.
Wrong again hilly, I was trying to start a conversation on this forum about sportsmanship. There is a mixed group of posters here young and old that should hear some positive words about cheering on your team but in a positive way.

[m0rocco]

yeah I talked to Fisher today and he didn't really take offense to it he was laughing when they said all that stuff. I thought it was funny for the most part because they were getting killed and they still were swearing and yelling at the OA players lol.

Nine times out of ten you are just motivating them more rather than distracting them. I think the guy that started this thread is upset about a specific situation and it trying to generalize our whole great section 5 community into feeling bad or sorry for him.

[The Truth]

yeahhh i agree. i cant see it really being started just because he's upset people dont cheer more for the other team. haha... but anyway, like a lot of people have said many people including myself actually enjoyed being despised by an opponent or their fans. It creates a great challenge and the best competition.

[boobiemiles]

Wrong again hilly, I was trying to start a conversation on this forum about sportsmanship. There is a mixed group of posters here young and old that should hear some positive words about cheering on your team but in a positive way.
Can you just tell us what you really want to say then? You're taking everybodys statements and saying that they're what's wrong with sports now a days. Can you give us some examples or something?

[Lukelakers]

Posts on this forum promted this, most of the people on this forum have no idea what sports are about. Of course it is about winning but have any of you heard about "Winning with class" I don't think so. I am sure most of you are younger than me but it wasn't that long ago when people would actually clap when the other team made a good play. Does it hurt you to reconize a good play by the other team? Do you "Hate" them that much?

actually I grew up around one of, if not the classiest basketball programs in all of Section Five. And believe me, they know how to win and lose with class.

[hilly]

Wrong again hilly, I was trying to start a conversation on this forum about sportsmanship. There is a mixed group of posters here young and old that should hear some positive words about cheering on your team but in a positive way.


Papa-Sue: I don't know how I'm wrong "again" with that statement. You kind of threw out some vague rants about how sportsmanship is a problem. I really don't think it is. I think the kids on the field, and this site, are pretty good about giving respect to those that deserve it.
I think you made that post because somebody ticked you off.

[adAms08]

I think that sportsmanship can definitely be a huge problem at HS sporting events, but it's mostly from the parents. One of my biggest pet peeves, which I see more and more, is parents who are convinced that their kids can do no wrong, and the other team can do no right.

For example, when watching soccer or field hockey, which I follow the most, listen to the parents when the ref blows the whistle. If the whistle is blown in favor of their kid, i.e. against the other team, parents will yell "THANK YOU," like "it's about damn time you blew the whistle, ref" - whereas if their kid or someone on their kids' team gets the whistle blown on them, it's "WHAT?! Are you kidding me? What was that call???" etc. - even if the foul committed is the same for both teams. It's funny in FH when a girl from the OTHER team hits a ball that goes too high off the ground and it's ruled a dangerous hit - the parents freak out like it was attempted murder or something - but if their own kid hits a ball and it goes too high? "Good try, honey!"

This kind of thing is especially evident when you don't care about the outcome of the game, and you are not associated with either team - you can hear how parents on BOTH sides are convinced that their kids are constantly getting shafted by the ref. It's actually somewhat funny - but mostly obnoxious and kind of sad. Reffing can't be one sided in TWO directions. I kind of worry about the lesson they are teaching their kids - do they really want them to grow up believing that the only reason they could ever possibly lose is because of a bad ref?

The players, for the most part, seem to be pretty respectful. The kids in the stands can get WAY too into it and go a little over the top. But it's mostly the parents that are the problem.

[m0rocco]

Papa-Sue: I don't know how I'm wrong "again" with that statement. You kind of threw out some vague rants about how sportsmanship is a problem. I really don't think it is. I think the kids on the field, and this site, are pretty good about giving respect to those that deserve it.
I think you made that post because somebody ticked you off.

Hilly come on....you are wrong AGAIN. Wait you were never wrong to begin with. Our kids in our section are great, this guys is letting ONE incident with prob one moronic kid or parent or group ruin his whole experience. Let it go man.

I sit on the sideline with my cousin and all kinds of kids from other schools come up and talk to him, and I mean heated rival schools, and there is no problems ever.

[OldSchool78]

I don't think sportsmanship is a problem nowadays. There are always going to be kids and parents that cause problems, but for the most part things are pretty mild. I think - especially with the teams I cover - that the kids are always very well behaved on the field and I don't see many problems.
The rant that started this thread come from somebody that has a grudge with somebody for some reason.

As somebody that has been affiliated with Section V through officiating basketball for 26 years, here is my take. Sportsmanship has really taken a backseat compared to when I first started in the early 80's. New York State,
every year for the past 10 years, has made sportsmanship a point of emphasis. They have put the onus on the officials to ensure sportsmanship, when in the opinion of many, the onus should be on the schools/coaches. Some examples of where sportsmanship has gone backward.

After a nice play, the player shows his shirt to the crowd. All of the NBA guys do it, that's probably where it started. The state considers that unsportsmanlike, so we are supposed to penalize it.

After blocking a shot, the shot blocker stares down the opponent and "whoofs" at him. Again, unsportsmanlike and should be penalized.

There are plenty of games where players taunt, bait and try to belittle. All unsportsmanlike issues.

After fouling out, players have taken their jerseys off and thrown them to the floor. Players have kicked scorers tables, walked by opposing teams benches and said things they shouldn't have said. All of these are unsportsmanlike.

In MY OPINION, these things shouldn't be in the rule book. The coaches should handle these situations, but because SOME don't, the State says that officials must.

Again, this is an example of the minority getting all of the ink. For every 1 bad situation, I can name you 10 good ones. I will say this. I know this is a huge GR read fan based forum. O-A and Notre Dame are two of the BEST at policing their own. Coach Kurkowski and Coach Holley before him always took care of any problem before it became one. Same thing for Coach Rapone. Another one that took care of things was Coach Dooling at W-C.

As far as fans go, we could care less, as long as they refrain from throwing things like M&M's and coins on the floor. There isn't much in the rule book with regards to what fans say and what we can penalize. We can only control what happens between the lines. It's up to the schools to handle the crowds. A suggestion for Papasue might be if you see or hear something that you think is inappropriate, bring it to the attention of security. They will be happy to address it.

[pappasue]

I think that sportsmanship can definitely be a huge problem at HS sporting events, but it's mostly from the parents. One of my biggest pet peeves, which I see more and more, is parents who are convinced that their kids can do no wrong, and the other team can do no right.

For example, when watching soccer or field hockey, which I follow the most, listen to the parents when the ref blows the whistle. If the whistle is blown in favor of their kid, i.e. against the other team, parents will yell "THANK YOU," like "it's about damn time you blew the whistle, ref" - whereas if their kid or someone on their kids' team gets the whistle blown on them, it's "WHAT?! Are you kidding me? What was that call???" etc. - even if the foul committed is the same for both teams. It's funny in FH when a girl from the OTHER team hits a ball that goes too high off the ground and it's ruled a dangerous hit - the parents freak out like it was attempted murder or something - but if their own kid hits a ball and it goes too high? "Good try, honey!"

This kind of thing is especially evident when you don't care about the outcome of the game, and you are not associated with either team - you can hear how parents on BOTH sides are convinced that their kids are constantly getting shafted by the ref. It's actually somewhat funny - but mostly obnoxious and kind of sad. Reffing can't be one sided in TWO directions. I kind of worry about the lesson they are teaching their kids - do they really want them to grow up believing that the only reason they could ever possibly lose is because of a bad ref?

The players, for the most part, seem to be pretty respectful. The kids in the stands can get WAY too into it and go a little over the top. But it's mostly the parents that are the problem.

I agree and anyone can see and hear it if they want to.

[m0rocco]

As somebody that has been affiliated with Section V through officiating basketball for 26 years, here is my take. Sportsmanship has really taken a backseat compared to when I first started in the early 80's. New York State,
every year for the past 10 years, has made sportsmanship a point of emphasis. They have put the onus on the officials to ensure sportsmanship, when in the opinion of many, the onus should be on the schools/coaches. Some examples of where sportsmanship has gone backward.

After a nice play, the player shows his shirt to the crowd. All of the NBA guys do it, that's probably where it started. The state considers that unsportsmanlike, so we are supposed to penalize it.

After blocking a shot, the shot blocker stares down the opponent and "whoofs" at him. Again, unsportsmanlike and should be penalized.

There are plenty of games where players taunt, bait and try to belittle. All unsportsmanlike issues.

After fouling out, players have taken their jerseys off and thrown them to the floor. Players have kicked scorers tables, walked by opposing teams benches and said things they shouldn't have said. All of these are unsportsmanlike.

In MY OPINION, these things shouldn't be in the rule book. The coaches should handle these situations, but because SOME don't, the State says that officials must.

Again, this is an example of the minority getting all of the ink. For every 1 bad situation, I can name you 10 good ones. I will say this. I know this is a huge GR read fan based forum. O-A and Notre Dame are two of the BEST at policing their own. Coach Kurkowski and Coach Holley before him always took care of any problem before it became one. Same thing for Coach Rapone. Another one that took care of things was Coach Dooling at W-C.

As far as fans go, we could care less, as long as they refrain from throwing things like M&M's and coins on the floor. There isn't much in the rule book with regards to what fans say and what we can penalize. We can only control what happens between the lines. It's up to the schools to handle the crowds. A suggestion for Papasue might be if you see or hear something that you think is inappropriate, bring it to the attention of security. They will be happy to address it.

Congrats, a super long post I enjoyed and actually read. The situations are few and far inbetween and no matter what kind of penalties we implement there will always be a few "jerks" who take it too far.

I hope Papasue isn't taking things like "the crazies" into account and seeing that as bad sportmanship. That is all in good taste and fun and after the games I see those ppl shaking hands and laughing with the other team/fans/coaches.

I guess part of the prob is "sportsmanship" can be subjective.

[pappasue]

As somebody that has been affiliated with Section V through officiating basketball for 26 years, here is my take. Sportsmanship has really taken a backseat compared to when I first started in the early 80's. New York State,
every year for the past 10 years, has made sportsmanship a point of emphasis. They have put the onus on the officials to ensure sportsmanship, when in the opinion of many, the onus should be on the schools/coaches. Some examples of where sportsmanship has gone backward.

After a nice play, the player shows his shirt to the crowd. All of the NBA guys do it, that's probably where it started. The state considers that unsportsmanlike, so we are supposed to penalize it.

After blocking a shot, the shot blocker stares down the opponent and "whoofs" at him. Again, unsportsmanlike and should be penalized.

There are plenty of games where players taunt, bait and try to belittle. All unsportsmanlike issues.

After fouling out, players have taken their jerseys off and thrown them to the floor. Players have kicked scorers tables, walked by opposing teams benches and said things they shouldn't have said. All of these are unsportsmanlike.

In MY OPINION, these things shouldn't be in the rule book. The coaches should handle these situations, but because SOME don't, the State says that officials must.

Again, this is an example of the minority getting all of the ink. For every 1 bad situation, I can name you 10 good ones. I will say this. I know this is a huge GR read fan based forum. O-A and Notre Dame are two of the BEST at policing their own. Coach Kurkowski and Coach Holley before him always took care of any problem before it became one. Same thing for Coach Rapone. Another one that took care of things was Coach Dooling at W-C.

As far as fans go, we could care less, as long as they refrain from throwing things like M&M's and coins on the floor. There isn't much in the rule book with regards to what fans say and what we can penalize. We can only control what happens between the lines. It's up to the schools to handle the crowds. A suggestion for Papasue might be if you see or hear something that you think is inappropriate, bring it to the attention of security. They will be happy to address it.\
I agree those things you posted about are not sporting and should be penalized. I would take a player out of a game for any infraction like your exemples.
It is too bad that all the good that is brought to our society by sports is tarnished by these actions.

[pappasue]

Congrats, a super long post I enjoyed and actually read. The situations are few and far inbetween and no matter what kind of penalties we implement there will always be a few "jerks" who take it too far.

I hope Papasue isn't taking things like "the crazies" into account and seeing that as bad sportmanship. That is all in good taste and fun and after the games I see those ppl shaking hands and laughing with the other team/fans/coaches.

I guess part of the prob is "sportsmanship" can be subjective.
I don't even listen to the fans once they have proven to either be fooling around or just plain idiots.
good natured kidding is great even when it gets a little mean I heckle my cousin all the time about his team the raiders but sometimes young people don't see the kidding part.

[fabut5]

As somebody that has been affiliated with Section V through officiating basketball for 26 years, here is my take. Sportsmanship has really taken a backseat compared to when I first started in the early 80's. New York State,
every year for the past 10 years, has made sportsmanship a point of emphasis. They have put the onus on the officials to ensure sportsmanship, when in the opinion of many, the onus should be on the schools/coaches. Some examples of where sportsmanship has gone backward.

After a nice play, the player shows his shirt to the crowd. All of the NBA guys do it, that's probably where it started. The state considers that unsportsmanlike, so we are supposed to penalize it.

After blocking a shot, the shot blocker stares down the opponent and "whoofs" at him. Again, unsportsmanlike and should be penalized.

There are plenty of games where players taunt, bait and try to belittle. All unsportsmanlike issues.

After fouling out, players have taken their jerseys off and thrown them to the floor. Players have kicked scorers tables, walked by opposing teams benches and said things they shouldn't have said. All of these are unsportsmanlike.

In MY OPINION, these things shouldn't be in the rule book. The coaches should handle these situations, but because SOME don't, the State says that officials must.

Again, this is an example of the minority getting all of the ink. For every 1 bad situation, I can name you 10 good ones. I will say this. I know this is a huge GR read fan based forum. O-A and Notre Dame are two of the BEST at policing their own. Coach Kurkowski and Coach Holley before him always took care of any problem before it became one. Same thing for Coach Rapone. Another one that took care of things was Coach Dooling at W-C.

As far as fans go, we could care less, as long as they refrain from throwing things like M&M's and coins on the floor. There isn't much in the rule book with regards to what fans say and what we can penalize. We can only control what happens between the lines. It's up to the schools to handle the crowds. A suggestion for Papasue might be if you see or hear something that you think is inappropriate, bring it to the attention of security. They will be happy to address it.

I agree but the penalty shouldnt be huge if there is one at all.

[m0rocco]

Once again....hard to penalize for sportsmanship, a lot of times (not all) sportsmanship is subjective.

[OldSchool78]

Once again....hard to penalize for sportsmanship, a lot of times (not all) sportsmanship is subjective.

If unsportsmanlike conduct is spelled out in a rule book, it's not hard to penalize. They give you examples of it. If it goes unpenalized, it means that the official didn't have the intestinal fortitude to call it. Plain and simple. If officials are tasked out to enforce rules of sportsmanship, there really are no gray areas. It is clearly spelled out in the rule book.

[m0rocco]

If unsportsmanlike conduct is spelled out in a rule book, it's not hard to penalize. They give you examples of it. If it goes unpenalized, it means that the official didn't have the intestinal fortitude to call it. Plain and simple. If officials are tasked out to enforce rules of sportsmanship, there really are no gray areas. It is clearly spelled out in the rule book.

Oh for a player obvs, I am talking about fans because I have a feeling this thread was started by someone who didn't witness player misconduct (that would have been addressed by refs/coaches) but saw something a fan did that offended him (but not may have offended others)

[fabut5]

Well fans do tend to get out of hand every once in a while. Ive witnessed it. Ive seen fans get kicked out of a game for getting out of control. Being an athlete I cant stand it when fans get all hyped up and start swearing and yelling. Its not only degrading to them but their kids who play sports.

[GRBball2008]

Well fans do tend to get out of hand every once in a while. Ive witnessed it. Ive seen fans get kicked out of a game for getting out of control. Being an athlete I cant stand it when fans get all hyped up and start swearing and yelling. Its not only degrading to them but their kids who play sports.

but it should be the schools responisbility to handle this unruley fan, not the responsibilty of the ref.

and as an athlete i dont mind fans, no matter how crazy they are. you can't let them (fans) get to you.

[bcherry8]

but it should be the schools responisbility to handle this unruley fan, not the responsibilty of the ref.

and as an athlete i dont mind fans, no matter how crazy they are. you can't let them (fans) get to you.
The second part of that response depends on what the fans are saying in terms of being crude/using vulgarity/etc.

[GRBball2008]

The second part of that response depends on what the fans are saying in terms of being crude/using vulgarity/etc.
I've heard some pretty bad things before and do you know what acknowledging these things does? makes the comments get worse

[The Truth]

The second part of that response depends on what the fans are saying in terms of being crude/using vulgarity/etc.

No it doesnt. you cant let them get to you no matter what they are saying. you shouldnt be conserned with the fans and letting them bother you is the last thing you want.

[coachstew]

but it should be the schools responisbility to handle this unruley fan, not the responsibilty of the ref.

and as an athlete i dont mind fans, no matter how crazy they are. you can't let them (fans) get to you.

I agree with this. Has to be the responsiblity of the school administration to have someone deal with unruly fans. Usually these situations can be handled with a small reminder. If not, then get them out of there.

[bcherry8]

I've heard some pretty bad things before and do you know what acknowledging these things does? makes the comments get worse
I stated that poorly. I meant that depending on how inappropriate the fans get, the situation should be taken care of.

[GRBball2008]

I stated that poorly. I meant that depending on how inappropriate the fans get, the situation should be taken care of.

okay in that case i agree.