NYSPHSAA Reductions Approved

[sectionvguy1]

It is official as a result of yesterdays State meeting. A number of changes were made, but the one that everyone really cares about it below.

Sports with a 24-game schedule will be dropped to a maximum of 20 contests. All other sports except for football and wrestling will drop their maximums by two contests. Football will cut back by one game and wrestling will tweak its format to a 20-point limit.

The football change pertains to teams not qualifying for sectionals. Teams that reach state finals can continue to play a maximum of 13 games.

Will they ever come back? -- I doubt it!

[Brick Tamland]

It is official as a result of yesterdays State meeting. A number of changes were made, but the one that everyone really cares about it below.

Sports with a 24-game schedule will be dropped to a maximum of 20 contests. All other sports except for football and wrestling will drop their maximums by two contests. Football will cut back by one game and wrestling will tweak its format to a 20-point limit.

The football change pertains to teams not qualifying for sectionals. Teams that reach state finals can continue to play a maximum of 13 games.

Will they ever come back? -- I doubt it!

Where did you get this info?

[pcssoccer2]

DO you know why they did this?

[sectionvguy1]

The NYSPHSAA minutes. I believe it will be in the local newspaper very soon for the public to see.

[GRBball2008]

The NYSPHSAA minutes. I believe it will be in the local newspaper very soon for the public to see.

yeah i saw something about this on the rochester news tonight.

[bcherry8]

Let the verbal wars begin.............

[hilly]

yeah i saw something about this on the rochester news tonight.

http://www.thebatavian.com/blogs/hilly/big-changes-could-be-coming-nysphsaa/3867

http://www.thebatavian.com/blogs/hilly/nysphsaa-moving-too-fast/4231

http://www.thebatavian.com/blogs/hilly/nysphsaa-cuts-approved-high-school-seasons-are-shortened/4303


In order, with the third one just being posted.

[sectionvguy1]

I see its now posted in the news section. Now it can be shared with the public.

[Giles]

It's interesting to me that it's just a recommendation. I'm curious to see if schools will still schedule 20 or if leagues will agree to all schools only scheduling 18.

[distancerulz]

Maybe it still needs to be adopted officially for it to take effect and that is why it is a recommendation. Or maybe each section needs to adopt it for all of its schools.??
Losing 2 games for a basketball season might not mean much but losing 1 from a football season is bigger I think.
They are trying to trim and save money but there is a point when the sport will suffer and might not be worth contesting the way it is meant to be contested.

[OldSchool78]

These cuts are just rediculous. When are school districts going to learn how to do more with less. In the private sector we do it every day.

Let me start out with basketball.

In Monroe County, stop paying for scorekeepers, announcers, and teachers to act as "security" Those positions should all be voluntary. I know that those are currently paid positions. I know of one instance where the announcer is paid more for what he did than a game official. Is this right?

Most of the workers that provide "security" are teachers just looking to pad their pensions. Are they really qualified to provide security if it were needed? Having been to a few games, my answer is no. At least at the schools I have been in.

[Giles]

These cuts are just rediculous. When are school districts going to learn how to do more with less. In the private sector we do it every day.

Let me start out with basketball.

In Monroe County, stop paying for scorekeepers, announcers, and teachers to act as "security" Those positions should all be voluntary. I know that those are currently paid positions. I know of one instance where the announcer is paid more for what he did than a game official. Is this right?

Most of the workers that provide "security" are teachers just looking to pad their pensions. Are they really qualified to provide security if it were needed? Having been to a few games, my answer is no. At least at the schools I have been in.

If those positions were voluntary, schools would not be able to fill them.

Teachers are valuable as security because they know the crowd better than anyone. Students typically are more accountable to their teachers and thus their behavior will stay in check. (I know this is not always the case)

In a few schools that have actually had crowd control problems, off duty police officers are hired to sit plain clothed in the crowd.

[GRBball2008]

If those positions were voluntary, schools would not be able to fill them.

Teachers are valuable as security because they know the crowd better than anyone. Students typically are more accountable to their teachers and thus their behavior will stay in check. (I know this is not always the case)

In a few schools that have actually had crowd control problems, off duty police officers are hired to sit plain clothed in the crowd.

Schools do more with less all the time... get off your private business high horse.

I think the positions could get filled even if they were voluntary. At Elba, The score keeper, shot clock operator, and score board operator were all done by volunteers.

And the teachers may not volunteer for the security jobs but parents will. And know who has more control over students than teachers? A parent. And parents will volunteer for these positions because A. They are going to be there anyway, B. They will not want to see any cutbacks from games, etc.

[315-4-life]

Does anyone know if they changed basketball and soccer down to 4 state classes. I think this would have a huge impact

[Giles]

I think the positions could get filled even if they were voluntary. At Elba, The score keeper, shot clock operator, and score board operator were all done by volunteers.

And the teachers may not volunteer for the security jobs but parents will. And know who has more control over students than teachers? A parent. And parents will volunteer for these positions because A. They are going to be there anyway, B. They will not want to see any cutbacks from games, etc.

I'm not sure if the school can rely on parents to supervise their crowds. I bet there are some major liability issues there.

Another problem is in small communities parents often times ARE the problem. In the several districts in which I am well connected the concerns of the AD's and coaches are specific parents. It'd be hard for Parent A to kick out Parent B if their kids are both playing and have been on each others Rec teams for years.

[Kicker6]

I think the positions could get filled even if they were voluntary. At Elba, The score keeper, shot clock operator, and score board operator were all done by volunteers.

And the teachers may not volunteer for the security jobs but parents will. And know who has more control over students than teachers? A parent. And parents will volunteer for these positions because A. They are going to be there anyway, B. They will not want to see any cutbacks from games, etc.

Sorry to disagree, but a parent would not have more control over the student body compared to a teacher. A parent would know maybe all of 10-20 fans (unless it's in a small commuity ie. class C or class D school.) A teacher would know a great deal more students attending a game. A student would be a little more wary of disrespecting a teacher that they know or have seen about school compared to a parent they probably have never seen. This is not a 100% guarantee, but on the average, this will be the case. As for finding volunteers, I think "some" positions can be filled, but it certainly would be harder than you think. Reducing the pay is a better option.

This is NOT aimed to anyone on these posts and I hate to mix in politics (I'm not affiliated to either party), but I find it ludicris that conservatives yell, complain, and berate lliberals about spending, and when cuts actually come, and it affects their precious pleasures, they cry "It's unfair. Find somewhere else to cut."

Personally, I wish h.s. sports were immune to the economic crisis we're battling, but we may as well admit, when Rochester is losing thousands of jobs and people are fleeing the tax-strapped state of New York, we need to start cutting back everywhere, sigh . . . :(

[GRBball2008]

I'm not sure if the school can rely on parents to supervise their crowds. I bet there are some major liability issues there.

Another problem is in small communities parents often times ARE the problem. In the several districts in which I am well connected the concerns of the AD's and coaches are specific parents. It'd be hard for Parent A to kick out Parent B if their kids are both playing and have been on each others Rec teams for years.

Well in small communities the parents usually know the teachers almost as well as they know some other parents. They get to know each other through the kid, similarly to how the parents get to know each other.

And if parents kicking out other parents would really problem then just have 1 paid supervisor on hand. The volunteers could report any problems to them if they felt uncomfortable asking a fellow parent to leave.

[GRBball2008]

Sorry to disagree, but a parent would not have more control over the student body compared to a teacher. A parent would know maybe all of 10-20 fans (unless it's in a small commuity ie. class C or class D school.)

I am basing my points around small schools. I attended a class D school so thats the logic i am using in backing this up. I understand in bigger A and B schools that a parent wouldn't know many people at all.

[Kicker6]

I am basing my points around small schools. I attended a class D school so thats the logic i am using in backing this up. I understand in bigger A and B schools that a parent wouldn't know many people at all.


I agree. I think parents at smaller school distrcits, as you've described, is definitely more knowlegeable of the fans than at larger schools. I'm not sure if parents "supervising" other parents and students would be successful, but it would be worth a try.

[GRBball2008]

I agree. I think parents at smaller school distrcits, as you've described, is definitely more knowlegeable of the fans than at larger schools. I'm not sure if parents "supervising" other parents and students would be successful, but it would be worth a try.
Right, its basically just a suggestion to try and save money. It couldn't hurt to give it a shot.

[315-4-life]

Let me explain why this won't happen in most schools. Teachers contracts include proctoring. To outsource this in anyway could lead to a grievance. Also the time a riot breaks out and the lawsuit happens, the $300 per game you paid will seem minor to the million dollar law suit. Most districts allow faculty in for free, because they feel them being their decreases the likelyhood of something happening.

[315-4-life]

You want to save money combine teams from common districts. Why does Pittsford need two teams in some sports and 1 in others. Greece could combine to make two different teams...Webster can go back to being Webster. Also smaller schools could start to merge in with other schools.

[OldSchool78]

I agree. I think parents at smaller school distrcits, as you've described, is definitely more knowlegeable of the fans than at larger schools. I'm not sure if parents "supervising" other parents and students would be successful, but it would be worth a try.


Kicker, from prior posts, it appears that you have ties to the Pittsford School district. Am I correct in this assumption? Pittsford, it is no secret, is one of the wealthiest commnuities in Monroe County. When was the last sucurity breach at a Pittsford game that couldn't have been handled by a volunteer? All I am saying is that why cut games from the schedule when there are more obvious cuts to be made. It just seems like a knee jerk reaction to the system. Usually you cut the fat out of the budgets before you cut the meat. The meat here are the games. The fat here is the administrative costs associated with those games. That's where you cut.

I too am not affiliated with any political party. That might be the one thing we do have in common. I believe that all individuals need to suck it up and do more with less, especially in the times we are now facing. I was appalled when the UAW said they weren't going to make any wage concessions when they asked the government for bail out money. Thoughts??

[Kicker6]

Kicker, from prior posts, it appears that you have ties to the Pittsford School district. Am I correct in this assumption? Pittsford, it is no secret, is one of the wealthiest commnuities in Monroe County. When was the last sucurity breach at a Pittsford game that couldn't have been handled by a volunteer? All I am saying is that why cut games from the schedule when there are more obvious cuts to be made. It just seems like a knee jerk reaction to the system. Usually you cut the fat out of the budgets before you cut the meat. The meat here are the games. The fat here is the administrative costs associated with those games. That's where you cut.

I too am not affiliated with any political party. That might be the one thing we do have in common. I believe that all individuals need to suck it up and do more with less, especially in the times we are now facing. I was appalled when the UAW said they weren't going to make any wage concessions when they asked the government for bail out money. Thoughts??

1) Not sure why you think I have/had ties to Pittsford. We're not even talking about "Pittsford." We're talking about school districts. Are you going to compare Pittsford to East Irondequoit, Addison, Geneseo, and Clyde-Savannah? Of course not. Each school district is inherently different. (Even private schools -- where they can pull their student-athletes from anywhere, lol ;))

2) Lack of sportsmanship (ie. cursing at players, refs, and other fans), fights, thowing objects, and other assorted misbehaviors are the common problems teacher supervisors deal with at h.s. basketball games. These cannot be lumped in with "security breaches" (whatever that is! :eek:)

3) Cuts need to be made everywhere. Hey, I'm all for trying volunteers to supervise fans. But as I stated previously and as another poster alluded to, it won't work for several reasons. a) Most teacher unions have a clause in their contract stipulating that these are not only paid positions, but also teachers have priority in filling them. b) A parent has far fewer "powers" than a teacher at a game being attended by other parents and the student body. <mostly at larger schools> c) I suggested reduction in pay d) Liability.

And yes, I was also somewhat irked the UAW wouldn't budge. But I also understand that the UAW's sole objective is to take care of their members. So, I expected as much.

[distancerulz]

I think that proposing to cut games and so on is a token by the NYSPHSAA.
It is really up to each district to determine how to save money.
I know some don't want to think about it but a quick way to save money is to just say that school sponsored sports won't happen.
When some school districts are cutting 10's or even 100's of teachers..... the cuts are coming all around.... shared sacrifice..... so sports has to come back with something to show they are doing something.